[jillybean]

I'm standing in as playing Director (8 table game), thankfully I had few points and my partner had to play most of the hands.
We had many fun hands today, here's one.

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[Ranmit]

2♥ surely?

[mw64ahw]

With those controls and losers there is an argument for putting this hand through 2♣ if you have that option available.
In this case 2♥ is the de rigueur rebid.

[helene_t]

2♣, then 2♥ if p takes preference for diamonds, shows this hand accurately. There's a small risk of playing 2♣ when p has a 5413 8-count.

[DavidKok]

2♥ is fine, we'll show the clubs next round.
What would 1♦-2♠ have been? I'd like to rule out that partner has a weak hand with long spades.

[jillybean]

1D 2S would be weak

1D 1S 2H 2S

1D 1S 2C 2H*

Knowing the hand, I will keep my opinions out of it for now

[DavidKok]

1♦-1♠; 2♥-2♠; 3♣. I don't play 4SGF over reverses, instead using the bids for natural misfits. If you do play fourth suit artificial here opener has to rebid 2NT.

This continuation is very good. Partner is showing 5(+)♠ but not a long self-sufficient suit, and we can get all our suits in. If partner has 6(+) spades they have a non-minimum, and if partner has only 5 they have either a fit for us or 5=3=2=3. That hand type is awkward but we're in a good position for partner to warn us if they're holding this hand.

[mw64ahw]

If I get 2♠ it could be min. with 5 so 2N. Anything else, but 3♣ and we're looking at 3N. This sort of hand reminds me why I prefer to play an unbalanced ♦

[jillybean]

mw64ahw, on 2025-April-04, 05:13, said:

This sort of hand reminds me why I prefer to play an unbalanced ♦

Hoping to get started on this soon.

2♥ is a reverse so 2♠ does not deny extras

[bluenikki]

jillybean, on 2025-April-03, 17:36, said:

I'm standing in as playing Director (8 table game), thankfully I had few points and my partner had to play most of the hands.
We had many fun hands today, here's one.

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North is far more likely to have clubs than hearts. So 2♣ is more likely to lead to a makeable partscore contract.

As to missing game, I assume that North will not pass 2♣ with an ace and a king.

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2025-April-03, 17:36, said:

I'm standing in as playing Director (8 table game), thankfully I had few points and my partner had to play most of the hands.
We had many fun hands today, here's one.

---

Playing reverse Flannery I don't mind a 2c rebid here, but let's go with 2h for discussion.
2 spades for me would be weakish rebid 5+ spades. Non gf. I don't play WJS.
Now I would rebid 3clubs showing 0454 and F1.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-April-04, 04:35, said:

1D 2S would be weak

1D 1S 2H 2S

1D 1S 2C 2H*

Knowing the hand, I will keep my opinions out of it for now

Hi,

I make the reverse.
Since a direct 2S bid after the 1D opening would be weak, we can skip the discussion,
if 2S is (non) forcing.

I would now bid 3C, which is FSF, but that does not mean I cant bid it now, it is the
cheapest bid, sets up a gf auction, and the spade shortage becomes obvious, and suprise
/ suprise, it will also show clubs, since 3C will basically deny a 6th diamond.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

Hi,

3♣ is FSF , but we are already in GF after the reverse. We are patterning out?

[jillybean]

1D 1S 2H 2S 3C 4C

1D 1S 2C 2H*

[DavidKok]

 jillybean, on 2025-April-04, 09:42, said:

Hi,

3♣ is FSF , but we are already in GF after the reverse. We are patterning out?

Reverses are normally just forcing, not forcing to game. I've also played them as 'promises another bid', which is very similar to what they end up being otherwise anyway, but still we can get out at the 3-level.

[jillybean]

I play the reverse showing 18 , partner can still use their judgement but I would expect us to continue to game+.
Getting out at the 3 level is important for those who play slightly less values for the reverse .

full hand when I get back to my PC

[mw64ahw]

Likewise I'd play the reverse as F1 only.
I chose 2N as 3♣ can have a variety of meanings and I can't count on an unknown partner interpreting correctly. For example, 3♣ could be stopper asking from a hand that is 1453small. There are also times when responder can use 3♣ as a shape asking bid so we can absolutely determine 0454

It sounds like responder is at least 6xx4 with 9+hcp so we are now slamming.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-April-04, 09:42, said:

Hi,

3♣ is FSF , but we are already in GF after the reverse. We are patterning out?

My bad, ..., if 2S showed a 6 carder, you would be in GF, due to the fact that 1D 2S would be weak,
but 2S could be 5, hence my claim we could sidestep the discussion about 2S being (non) forcing
was wrong.

It is common exp. practice to play 2S as forcing, ... or the reverse promising another bid, and my guess
is, that this is the way the maj. in N/A plays it. We dont play it that way, but when you are in Rom, do
as the Romans do.
I would still play 3C as FSF, but you could also call is mark time bid (if I recall it correctly, Alvin Roth
invented this name), it is a common signal, nothing to add, asking for further description from p, it should
create a gf seq.

[smerriman]

jillybean, on 2025-April-04, 09:59, said:

I play the reverse showing 18 , partner can still use their judgement but I would expect us to continue to game+.
Getting out at the 3 level is important for those who play slightly less values for the reverse .

Getting out at the 3 level isn't really related to whether the reverse shows slightly less values or not. mikeh's whole primer thread - where he assumed 18+, though said it also applied to weaker ranges - is founded on the fact that responder will be bidding a forcing 2♠ even with a subminimum with 5 spades. Even 18 may not be enough to force to game opposite Kxxxx and out in spades (or whatever the weakest hand you'll respond with is).

And if partner can "use their judgement" and pass, that's why opener has to do something else with extras when they do want to force.

[jillybean]

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