[Knurdler]

Every time I think we what we are doing, another twist that we have not considered comes up in play.
We try to keep it simple and play “standard American” (I can only find old summaries by individuals).

Is a new suit response to an overcall forcing or not?
Is the answer different if the overcall is at the 1 or 2 level?
We currently play that any new suit response to a 1 level overcall is not forcing but it is invitational.
If the overcall is at the 2 level, then our new suit is still not forcing but is strongly invitational.

If a new suit is not forcing, that suggests the only forcing response to an overcall is a cue bid of the opener.
My problem is that some have told me that the cue bid by advancer always shows 10+ points and always 3+ card support.

This raises questions for me.
1. Without learning a whole new system, should we play a new suit response to a 2 level overcall as not forcing?
2. If the bidding starts (1H) 1S (P) ... what does the advancer bid with very strong hand (game going) but no support for overcaller?
(I think it is 2H and then a new bid)
3. If the bidding goes (1H) 1S (P) 2H (P) 3S what is the overcaller saying? (I think he has a full strength overcall, about an opening bid, 12-14 points.
He is too strong for 2S and too weak for 4S if advancer only has 10 points)
4. If the overcaller rebids 3S, how does the advancer with the more common 10-12 points and 3 card support decide whether to pass or bid 4S?
(I think the same way as if the bidding went 1S (P) 2S (P) 3S (P)… )

Thanks

[DavidKok]

This is a great question. There are (at least) two styles:

• Changes of suit are forcing. The cue shows support.
  
• Changes of suit are not forcing. The cue shows any hand too strong to make a non-forcing bid.

Both styles have advantages and disadvantages. I think your post is mixing the two, which is a common source of confusion.

Back in the day style 2 was very popular, as far as I know. The argument in favour of it is simple: overcaller can be quite weak, so we don't want to force them to bid again unless we really have the goods. Personally I think style 1 is more effective, and I much prefer it. The downside of style 2 is that these days people bid on shape, not on strength. Consequently, if you reserve a nebulous call that may or may not have support in competition you will these days regularly find yourself struggling for a bid the next round at an uncomfortably high level.
It is also common to mix styles 1 and 2, e.g. "In a 1/1 situation, style 1. In a 2/1 situation, style 2. In a 2/2 situation, style 1" or the likes. Personally I think this is a bad idea, but unfortunately this is the standard I was taught when I just started playing. These days I'm all in on style 1 though - support with support, and consequently changes of suit deny support, and to make sure we can get all our important hands in these are therefore forcing.

Regarding your questions number 3 and 4: for me this 3♠ rebid shows a hand in the 12-14 range as you say, though normally I wouldn't make this bid. We have everything from 2NT to 3♥ available to clarify our invitational hand, and I will almost always find a cheaper bid. Note that you can get to 4♠ also by bidding a change of suit first. This mostly also answers question 4 - a thoughtful partner will facilitate the exchange of information below the safety level of 3♠, giving advancer enough room to evaluate their hand. If partner does put you to the test by bidding 3♠ you just take your best guess.

[mike777]

As this is the novice section I think it would be helpful to clarify style one in a bit more detail.

New suit forcing to what?

Cue bid shows support and what else?

[DavidKok]

In style 1, I play a change of suit as simply forcing. A rebid by overcaller is not forcing unless it's a jump shift, a cue or a reverse.
Instead advancer's cue shows invitational(+) values along with support. Depending on the situation that's around 9-10 points minimum, with no maximum. In certain situations you may wish to drop or increase this requirement by a point or so.

[smerriman]

To me, "standard" is:

a) a cue promises support
b) if partner overcalls at the 1 level, a new suit at the (cheapest) two level is not forcing (but constructive)
c) other new suits are forcing

a) is so that later bidding is substantially easier, and b) is the most common situation we found ourselves in, wanting to compete constructively but not get too high. In rare cases where we have a super strong hand that can't afford partner passing, jump shift. It's not ideal, and there may be more suitable uses of a jump shift by a non-passed hand, but you're probably not using them anyway.

[Knurdler]

Thanks for the replies.
I have a typo in my Q2. My guess at the answer should read (I think it is 2S and then a new bid).
I was taught and mix of style 1 and 2 per David with 1 level advance eg (1c) 1D (P) 1H being forcing and 2 level eg (1c) 1S (P) 2D being not forcing.

I understand smerriman answers a and b but I am not clear if c is a forcing 1 level reply or a jump shift (or both)?

[smerriman]

Knurdler, on 2025-July-07, 07:51, said:

I understand smerriman answers a and b but I am not clear if c is a forcing 1 level reply or a jump shift (or both)?

Anything else - 1 over 1, 2 over 2 or higher, or a jump shift should all be forcing. I.e., what you're likely playing already (just without introducing the confusion of occasionally cue-raising without support, which will lead to partner being unsure of when you do have support).