[barmar]

NemoJames, on 2025-August-03, 14:50, said:

It is interesting that my question has still not been answered. The closest was "If someone means HCPs then that is what they say, except in rare cases," but that is an opinion and not a rule. In my opinion the vast majority of club players assume 12 points means 12 HCPs on an opening bid when a suit has not been agreed.

One point you're missing is that no matter what definition they use, you have to take it with a grain of salt. Players are allowed to use judgement when evaluating their hands, they're not automatons who blindly apply simple rules that can be enumerated.

For instance, honors are more valuable in long suits than short suits and in combination with other honors. So competent players will upgrade a hand with AQxx in one suit compared to a hand with Ax and Qx in separate suits. It's simply not practical to distinguish these when answering "how many points are they showing?"

As another example, I open most hands with 12 HCP, and some with 11. But I don't usually open a 12-point hand with 4333 shape, unless the points are 3 aces, there are good spot cards, or maybe if I'm in 3rd seat. State of the match could influence me, too.

It's simply hard to disclose all this. We do the best we can.

[NemoJames]

That is my whole point. Rules that are vague, leave room for interpretation, in which case you are not breaking the rules. If a rule says points must be HCP then it is solid and if someone breaks them they can be challenged.

The other unanswered question I asked was the rules say if your partner has given wrong information during the bidding and your are defenders, you don't have to say anything until the hand is finished and the tricks counted. Then What ? In the history of bridge has that ever happened ? Why not say something at the end of the auction while something can still be done about it?

blackshoe, on 2025-August-03, 19:05, said:

Whatever rules you make, some will ignore them, some will break them, some will be certain they know better than the rule-makers what the rule should be. And a small proportion of players will attempt to follow them, with varying degrees of success.

[jillybean]

NemoJames, on 2025-August-05, 03:14, said:

The other unanswered question I asked was the rules say if your partner has given wrong information during the bidding and your are defenders, you don't have to say anything until the hand is finished and the tricks counted. Then What ? In the history of bridge has that ever happened ? Why not say something at the end of the auction while something can still be done about it?

"You don't have to say anything until the end of the hand" - you must not say anything until the end of the hand.
Then what - call the Director. Yes, I've done it when it has occured.
Why not say something at the end of the auction? Correcting defenders misinformation before the end of the play may benefit the defenders. Partner alerted and described my bid as hearts and a minor, our agreement is it shows only clubs. If I correct the error at the end of auction he will know to lead clubs.

This is how the rules say we should play.