[DavidKok]

Here's a fun hand from last night. This is a bit of a weird problem - I'm going to impose my own system for the first round of bidding, and ask you what methods you'd play over that. Hopefully the system is close enough to what you play that your own methods easily transfer.

---

MPs.

In my system 1♦ showed [5+ or 4=4=4=1 or 1=4=4=4] and 2♣ is artificial and always strong, containing 22-23 balanced or any GF. I chose 1♦ as this hand isn't nearly strong enough to open 2♣, even with a gadget available to show 4♠5(+)♦ after. Partner surprised me by bidding 3♦ inverted minor, showing 6-9 hcp, 4(+)♦ and denying a 4cM. If people are interested in the other options available to partner please let me know.
What are your options now and what is your bidding plan?

[mike777]

3NT at MP, ready to give up on 5 or 6 D.

Prefer partner to be able to bid 2D, weak, or 3D with long d and lots of shape, mixed raise, no inverted minors, prefer crisscross for LR and GF. I know that is very much a minority view.

[WasWinM]

I really don't like the range imposed on the 3D bid - way too wide. That said, in the three crucial suits, excluding clubs, I have 4 losers to cover for slam and partner made what is in essence a simple raise. He may have no cover for any loser, or he may cover 2 or 3. But 4 is kind of rose colored glasses thinking. I give up on slam and bid what I think will at least have a play, 5 Diamonds.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I guess you could bid 6D direct, or go slower.
As it is even Kx in clubs will be useful.

A KC ask will avoid playing 6 missing a KC and the Queen of trumps,
if it is 4D conditional, I still would insist.
Given we have all the controls / cues, a control bidding seq. wont work,
it would endplay p.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Cyberyeti]

OK, we play: 1♦ is 4+ but can be a strong NT, unbalanced if minimum as we play weak NT

2N = 5+♦ 5-8
3♦ = 5+♦ 0-4
2♦ = 9+ with 5, 10+ with 4 and may contain 4M

Both the jumps will not contain 4M, and will occasionally be a hand with 4 card support and a singleton so x, xxx, Kxxx, xxxxx would bid 3♦

Knowing partner has a 5th diamond means slam is really quite likely, xx, xx, Kxxxx, xxxx is plenty to make it on a 2-1 break.

We would likely start 1♦-2N-4♣ splinter if partner has 5, 1♦-1N-2♠ if he has 4 and no major singleton

Playing what you play I am going to end up asking keycards hopefully after partner gets the chance to cue clubs

[DavidKok]

I have no idea what to make of these comments, but I'll try:

mike777, on 2026-July-10, 11:54, said:

Prefer partner to be able to bid 2D, weak, or 3D with long d and lots of shape, mixed raise, no inverted minors, prefer crisscross for LR and GF. I know that is very much a minority view.

3♦ is a mixed raise. That is what partner bid.

WasWinM, on 2026-July-10, 12:11, said:

I really don't like the range imposed on the 3D bid - way too wide.

Let's call it 'good 6 to bad 9', excluding half a point on either end. Does that resolve the bidding issue? If you jump now I agree that there is no room to find out more information.

P_Marlowe, on 2026-July-10, 13:25, said:

A KC ask will avoid playing 6 missing a KC and the Queen of trumps,
if it is 4D conditional, I still would insist.
Given we have all the controls / cues, a control bidding seq. wont work,
it would endplay p.

You mean 4♦ as a generic slam try? Or as a gadget? Which do you play?

Cyberyeti, on 2026-July-10, 14:00, said:

We would likely start 1♦-2N-4♣ splinter if partner has 5, 1♦-1N-2♠ if he has 4 and no major singleton

What are your continuations over 2♠? Presumably this shows a real reverse, so can partner now support diamonds on a 3-card suit? You said that 'Knowing partner has a 5th diamond means slam is really quite likely' - if this information mattered to you, are you now swinging the other way?

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-10, 14:08, said:

What are your continuations over 2♠? Presumably this shows a real reverse, so can partner now support diamonds on a 3-card suit? You said that 'Knowing partner has a 5th diamond means slam is really quite likely' - if this information mattered to you, are you now swinging the other way?

If partner is supporting on 3, what does partner have ? (23)35, 3334 ? it's a real reverse and probably not a minimum one unless it has a lot of shape.

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-July-10, 14:31, said:

If partner is supporting on 3, what does partner have ? (23)35, 3334 ? it's a real reverse and probably not a minimum one unless it has a lot of shape.

What are your continuations over 2♠? Can partner now support diamonds on a 3-card suit? You said that 'Knowing partner has a 5th diamond means slam is really quite likely' - if this information mattered to you, are you now swinging the other way?
I've asked you to bid in the system I posed, but you overruled the explicit request of the thread and used your own. Would you please share the system? I will begrudgingly bid partner's hand in your system even despite the UI, but you'd need to tell me how.

[mike777]

If three D is a mixed raise I did not understand that.

Thought 3D could be flatish hand with 6 or 7 Hcp in your explanation


If more playing strength than that I will
Try 3S
Will pass 3NT
Raise 4D to 5
Bid 4H KB over 4C

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-10, 14:37, said:

What are your continuations over 2♠? Can partner now support diamonds on a 3-card suit? You said that 'Knowing partner has a 5th diamond means slam is really quite likely' - if this information mattered to you, are you now swinging the other way?
I've asked you to bid in the system I posed, but you overruled the explicit request of the thread and used your own. Would you please share the system? I will begrudgingly bid partner's hand in your system even despite the UI, but you'd need to tell me how.

I said playing what you play I'm going to bid a major (depends if you show stops or shape out which), but I don't know your continuations then I'm going to end up asking aces. I have no idea how to bid over your 3♦ because I don't play anything like it, and I really hate the concept because of the system I play (you can't hold a balanced 17, I can, but you have a horrible problem with a 16-17 count 4441/1444). We essentially bid naturally over 2♠. Some minimum hands will bid 3♦ with 3. The only artificial bid here is 3♥.

What are 1♦-2N and 1♦-3♣ in your methods ?

[mikeh]

Slam may well have a play. It may even be (virtually) cold: many plausible hands would work…this is just a simple, quick example: xx xx Kxxxx Axxx, where grand looks pretty good to me.

So not probing for slam seems silly. xxx xxx KQJx xxx meets your parameters for 3D so clearly slam isn’t always making.

We need to make a bid that either immediately or after another bid or two should let partner in on our plans. I don’t see a way to explore for slam and keep 3N available (although see below for an unlikely sequence), but even at mps I’m probably giving up on 3N. If 5D is the limit, maybe they can take 4 (or 5) club tricks against 3N.

For now I’ll bid 3H which may (hopefully temporarily) endplay partner. I’m bidding 4S next. I have to do the majors in this order because a 4H bid would be David’s despised kickback, lol. See below since I may still get to use kickback!

There are various branches that may arise. 3N over my 3H would be surprising…and imply a soft hand with black card values….say Qxx xx Qxxx Kxxx….so I might rethink and pass at mps.

4C over 3H would get me excited. Even if it’s only the king, it provides a parking space for a major, probably a heart, and it should signal an average to good hand in context. I might now use kickback.

I haven’t covered everything that might happen but I hope I’ve shown the general idea. I actually lay something very similar…unbalanced 1D with 3D as a mixed raise.

Add: if it goes 1D 3D 3H 4D 4S, partner can bid 4N as denying a club control but showing values too good to sign off in 5D.

[P_Marlowe]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-10, 14:08, said:

<snip>
You mean 4♦ as a generic slam try? Or as a gadget? Which do you play?
<snip>

Generic slam try, start of a control bidding seq.
I shortly though about bidding 3H, but discarded it, ..., but after reading MikeHs plan,
this may be the best way, 3H followed by 4S.

[DavidKok]

mike777, on 2026-July-10, 15:13, said:

Try 3S
Will pass 3NT
Raise 4D to 5
Bid 4H KB over 4C

I think 3NT over 3♠ is the most reasonable response by partner, but you'll have to decide once I reveal the hand if you would have done something different.

Cyberyeti, on 2026-July-10, 15:19, said:

We essentially bid naturally over 2♠. Some minimum hands will bid 3♦ with 3. The only artificial bid here is 3♥.

What are 1♦-2N and 1♦-3♣ in your methods ?

From my understanding partner will then bid 3♦ over 2♠, which typically shows a 4 card suit but can be a 3 card suit on specific hands in your method. I don't quite get which bids are forcing here and which are potential signoffs - if 2♠ was not yet game forcing then partner will insist on game.
I play 1♦-2NT as a garbage raise, approximately 0-5 hcp with 4(+)♦. For me 1♦-3♣ shows approximately (9)10-11 with 6(+)♣.

mikeh, on 2026-July-10, 21:52, said:

4C over 3H would get me excited. Even if it’s only the king, it provides a parking space for a major, probably a heart, and it should signal an average to good hand in context. I might now use kickback.

Partner will bid 4♣ over 3♥. You mentioned kickback now, 4♥ does not show a red 6-5 for you? Or is 4♠ the kickback bid?

P_Marlowe, on 2026-July-11, 00:17, said:

Generic slam try, start of a control bidding seq.
I shortly though about bidding 3H, but discarded it, ..., but after reading MikeHs plan,
this may be the best way, 3H followed by 4S.

Over 4♦ partner will bid 5♣.

[P_Marlowe]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-12, 01:15, said:

<snip>

Over 4♦ partner will bid 5♣.

5C should be the Ace, ..., I will bid now 6D.
As it is, we are likely to play diamonds for at most 1 looser, have no club looser,
the major holdings ..., any Q on the side will do to give it a shot, I go for it.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-12, 01:15, said:

From my understanding partner will then bid 3♦ over 2♠, which typically shows a 4 card suit but can be a 3 card suit on specific hands in your method. I don't quite get which bids are forcing here and which are potential signoffs - if 2♠ was not yet game forcing then partner will insist on game.

2♠ is not GF, pass (3316 3-5 count), 3♣ (7 card club suit 3-5) and 3♦ can end the auction. 2N is natural ish GF 2 or less diamonds so 5+♣, 3♥ is art GF suggesting diamonds, either 3 and enough to force to game or 4 in a balanced 7-9.

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-12, 01:15, said:

I think 3NT over 3♠ is the most reasonable response by partner, but you'll have to decide once I reveal the hand if you would have done something different.

From my understanding partner will then bid 3♦ over 2♠, which typically shows a 4 card suit but can be a 3 card suit on specific hands in your method. I don't quite get which bids are forcing here and which are potential signoffs - if 2♠ was not yet game forcing then partner will insist on game.
I play 1♦-2NT as a garbage raise, approximately 0-5 hcp with 4(+)♦. For me 1♦-3♣ shows approximately (9)10-11 with 6(+)♣.

Partner will bid 4♣ over 3♥. You mentioned kickback now, 4♥ does not show a red 6-5 for you? Or is 4♠ the kickback bid?

Over 4♦ partner will bid 5♣.

Even if I’m 5=6 reds, 4H would be kickback. Bidding methods involve compromises and the 3D mixed raise makes it impossible to cater to showing 5=6 reds. We can’t have it both ways and, at imps, surely 5D is very unlikely to fail anytime we have a 5=3 heart fit. If I opened 1D with 5=6 I have a great 14+, otherwise I’d open 1H and treat it as 5=5.

We had a similar hand when we first started using kickback, and had a misunderstanding…I’ve never claimed kickback never gave rise to such…and we have a clear agreement that 4H would be kickback.

[DavidKok]

 Cyberyeti, on 2026-July-12, 05:01, said:

2♠ is not GF, pass (3316 3-5 count), 3♣ (7 card club suit 3-5) and 3♦ can end the auction. 2N is natural ish GF 2 or less diamonds so 5+♣, 3♥ is art GF suggesting diamonds, either 3 and enough to force to game or 4 in a balanced 7-9.

Then partner must bid 3♥ instead. What do you bid from there?

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-12, 06:47, said:

Then partner must bid 3♥ instead. What do you bid from there?

3♠ cue

[DavidKok]

When does partner bid 3NT over your cue? Does it require stoppers in all suits?

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2026-July-12, 09:32, said:

When does partner bid 3NT over your cue? Does it require stoppers in all suits?

Slightly murky, for partner to have 3 diamonds and not bid 2N he would need to be (31)36 or similar so it absolutely promises a club stop, needn't have hearts.

I think once you've said you're suitable for diamonds and partner has cued, it's the bid you make with 3, anything else shows 4. Let me guess, he bids 4♣.