[mr1303]

We were playing Acol, but given that the bidding would probably be the same in SAYC for the most part, I'll stick it in here

---

I was S, and the bidding preceded:

1S 1NT
3C 4C
4D 5C

All pass

After cashing their 3 top tricks at the start, we were off 1. 4S is cold.

Opposite the 2 red aces, 7C is cold. Hence I made a slam try in clubs rather than just bid 4S. Partner said that she had no other bid to make, since she had 5 card club support.

Were we just unlucky, or should someone have done something differently?

[hrothgar]

mr1303, on Sep 1 2005, 04:28 PM, said:

We were playing Acol, but given that the bidding would probably be the same in SAYC for the most part, I'll stick it in here

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ JT ♥ xx ♦ KQJx ♣ JTxxx ♠ AKQxxx ♥ xx ♦ x ♣ AKQx

I was S, and the bidding preceded:

1S 1NT
3C 4C
4D 5C

All pass

After cashing their 3 top tricks at the start, we were off 1. 4S is cold.

Opposite the 2 red aces, 7C is cold. Hence I made a slam try in clubs rather than just bid 4S. Partner said that she had no other bid to make, since she had 5 card club support.

Were we just unlucky, or should someone have done something differently?

I suspect that a lot of people are going to run into trouble with this hand. I can double dummy into 4♠, but at the table I'd end up in 5♣ off one.

[FrancesHinden]

The fact you were playing Acol rather than SAYC if anything makes this slightly easier, as the 1NT bidder is much more limited (he's denied a decent 9-count).

I think as South you had a clear 4S bid (contract suggestion) over 4C, which your partner will pass. You have shown a game forcing hand with spades and clubs, and you have now pretty much denied a red ace. If partner has good red suit controls he will certainly bid on at IMPs (although he might just pass at matchpoints). I admit I will play 4S with 6C cold more often than you will, but I will also go off in 5C with 4S considerably less often.

Holding no aces, your partner might just have bid 4S over 4D, but I have more sympathy for him looking at 5-card club support, particularly in an Acol base where he could easily have had 3 spades. 4S from North playing SAYC is more tempting because for one thing he's unlikely to have three of them, and for another he's at the bottom end of a 1NT bid rather than near the top.

[Double !]

Do not understand why the south hand didn't start with some form of forcing opening as opposed to 1 spade. South hand needs little more than some tolerance for spades and club support such as the jack or xxxx to be odds-on to make 4 spades. Why open a 10-trick hand with a 1-bid?

[Walddk]

I like the auction until your partner bid 5♣. She should have bid 4♠ as natural (delayed doubleton support) and denying a heart control. Remember that she already denied 3-card spade support when she raised to 4♣.

Why is 4♠ not a cue bid for clubs you may ask. Because it's a good agreement that you look for the best *game* first. When a major is opener's longer suit, 4♠ should be (semi)natural with a hand that can take no more action.

Then you would be happy to pass.

If you frequently make a jump shift on a 3-card minor in order to establish a game force, 4♣ is less attractive. Then 3♦ would be the alternative, and that will also lead you to the top spot:

1♠ - 1N
3♣ - 3♦
3♠ - 4♠
p

Roland

[mgoetze]

Walddk, on Sep 1 2005, 02:48 PM, said:

I like the auction until your partner bid 5♣. She should have bid 4♠ as natural (delayed doubleton support) and denying a heart control. Remember that she already denied 3-card spade support when she raised to 4♣.

Huh? Really?

(Does this have anything to do with your opening bid on 4234 and 4324 hands? Would that be 1♣ in all modern variants of ACOL?)

[FrancesHinden]

No, you could open 1S on 4(32)4 hands. But you would just raise 1NT to 3NT.

[Al_U_Card]

One of the reasons that I don't like singleton showing control bids like in this sequence. I think that a 4S bid over 4C says that I have a minimum j/s (as nice as it is) my hand can play in 5C if you insist, but my S are good and I don't have a red ace to Q-bid. Pard with his hand will be happy to play in 4S with the C secondary fit.

[inquiry]

At the risk of being chastized again, I will give a third point of view. As north I would not open 1♠ in the SAYC/ACOL/2over1 . This hand hand has a great chance for game opposite as little as xxx xxxx xxx xxx. Surely, this has to be worth a 2♣ bid even if not playing that this bid can include ACOL two bids in a major. And if playing ACOL why can't you open 2♠? But ok...

After 2♣ and the obligatory 2♦ response and 2♠ rebid, game will be reached without much fanfare in spades.

Having opened 1♠ and heard a jump to 3♣, I would first rebid 3♦ as north, planning on pulling 3NT to 4♣. Partner will bid 3♠, I will rebid 4♣ and then pass partner's 4♠ rebid. Of course, I disagree (fairly strongly actually) with the 1♠ opening bid despite the low hcp count of 18 hcp.

[Fluffy]

I think 3♦ after 3♣ is the proper bid.

[mike777]

hmmm, well 4s over 4c seems to easy and clear to me.

4s is not a cuebid it just shows a powerful 2 suited hand with no clear slam direction.

Agree strongly with your 1s opening bid.

[Al_U_Card]

Jlall, on Sep 1 2005, 10:22 AM, said:

OMG A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW *CHASTIZE*

Nope, always the same one, just repeated in different places......lol (no offense meant as I value his comments and analyses)

[shoeless]

You guys are way to good for me. 1s-1nt-3s-4s - swish

[inquiry]

shoeless, on Sep 1 2005, 05:08 PM, said:

You guys are way to good for me. 1s-1nt-3s-4s - swish

Three spades can be passed.. after 1NT, surely you have at least 10 tricks, don't you think?

[shoeless]

Sigh! What part of 'you guys are too good for me' did you miss? As I don't play sayc or acol, I really shouldn't have bothered offering a response. I agree with the group with the largest number of agreed responses.

[coyot]

I think that the bidding went wrong on 4th level.
1♠-1NT
3♣-4♣

Now bid 4♠! It will tell partner that you have 6-4 shape with GOOD spades (and, seeing his empty clubs, he will infer that you most likely don't have any red honors.)
Let partner decide whether his red cards are working by showing your black suit lengths .

[Double !]

shoeless, on Sep 1 2005, 05:19 PM, said:

I agree with the group with the largest number of agreed responses.

I like this approach. Might I borrow this answer should I need it in the future?