Help
With devices like Bergen and 1N fording - has anyone considered the possibility of using a direct raise of major (and even minor) as asking
Gamma style (outside controls replaces length)
Step 1 - 0 Top Honour (0-4 outside controls)
Step 2 - 1 Top Honours (0-4 outside controls)
Step 3 - 2 Top Honours (0-4 outside controls)
Step 4 - 3 Top Honours (0-4 outside controls)
Step 5 - 0 Top Honour (5+ outside controls)
Step 6 - 1 Top Honour (5+ outside controls)
Step 7 - 2 Top Honours (5+ outside controls)
Step 8 - 3 Top Honours (5+ outside controls)
Further clarification, Ace asking or Outside Suit asking bids can then be used.
Any comments?
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2/1 What about 1M - 2M asking
#2 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-September-07, 09:50
asking for something so specific opposite a very wide ranged partner with your first bid seems of little use. I'm not sure how you'd show 6-9 with 3 trumps if you did this (going through a forcing NT is NOT an option, it will often be impossible to clarify if you have 2 or 3 trumps which is crucial, and if they bid you can't differentiate a 3 card limit from a 3 card normal raise).
#3
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Posted 2005-September-07, 10:00
Not sure why 1n cannot be used with 3 card support. If for example 1♥ - 1N - 2♣ - 2♥ would be min (true you can't distinguish between 2 or 3 but opener can still explore with a big hand). Can you suggest a problem hand?
I would think Asking bids would be useful slam investigating tools at a low level. Here 1M - 2M would guarantee Game+ and the slam investigation can start immediately.
I would think Asking bids would be useful slam investigating tools at a low level. Here 1M - 2M would guarantee Game+ and the slam investigation can start immediately.
#4 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-September-07, 10:23
Sure, I can suggest quite a few problem hands. Say you have:
AKxxx KJxx x Kxx
1S p 1N p
2H p 2S p
?
Now you obviously have to pass as you may have no fit and certaintly dont have many HCP. But say the auction goes
1S p 2S p
?
Easy game try with a hand like this. So if partner had a hand like Qxx QTx xxx QJx for instance, you would miss a good game. True, I gave no wastage, but I also gave a min with queens and jacks. How about this hand...
KQTxx --- AKxx Qxxx. Same problem, your hand is very good if you have a fit but not very good without one.
You also allow them to get in easily. 1M p 2M (esepecially spades) is a good "preemptive" auction. The opponents have trouble sorting out level because they will bid lightly with shortness as a "prebalance" They may get too high or they may miss a game, or the may never bid at all. Over 1M p 1N it's much easier for them to get in. They can get in with less risk and more definition.
Suppose they do bid. The auction goes 1H p 1N 2S and you have xx Kxxxxx KQx Ax. An easy pass right? Now if partner balances with 3H, does this show 6-9? or 10-12 (3 card limit). How do you sort this out? Must partner just jump to game or further complicate issues with a X? You may miss competing. Even worse, say you have the same hand and it goes 1H p 1N 2S p 3S. Parnter obviously cant bid here with xx Axx AJxx xxxx but...oops you missed another game. What went wrong? Of course had partner given a simple raise, the hand with 6 hearts might have chosen a game try.
Say the auction goes 1H p 1N 3D p p ? What does a 3H bid show. 6-9 or 10-12? Same problem.
AKxxx KJxx x Kxx
1S p 1N p
2H p 2S p
?
Now you obviously have to pass as you may have no fit and certaintly dont have many HCP. But say the auction goes
1S p 2S p
?
Easy game try with a hand like this. So if partner had a hand like Qxx QTx xxx QJx for instance, you would miss a good game. True, I gave no wastage, but I also gave a min with queens and jacks. How about this hand...
KQTxx --- AKxx Qxxx. Same problem, your hand is very good if you have a fit but not very good without one.
You also allow them to get in easily. 1M p 2M (esepecially spades) is a good "preemptive" auction. The opponents have trouble sorting out level because they will bid lightly with shortness as a "prebalance" They may get too high or they may miss a game, or the may never bid at all. Over 1M p 1N it's much easier for them to get in. They can get in with less risk and more definition.
Suppose they do bid. The auction goes 1H p 1N 2S and you have xx Kxxxxx KQx Ax. An easy pass right? Now if partner balances with 3H, does this show 6-9? or 10-12 (3 card limit). How do you sort this out? Must partner just jump to game or further complicate issues with a X? You may miss competing. Even worse, say you have the same hand and it goes 1H p 1N 2S p 3S. Parnter obviously cant bid here with xx Axx AJxx xxxx but...oops you missed another game. What went wrong? Of course had partner given a simple raise, the hand with 6 hearts might have chosen a game try.
Say the auction goes 1H p 1N 3D p p ? What does a 3H bid show. 6-9 or 10-12? Same problem.
#5
- Deipnosophist
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Posted 2005-September-07, 10:30
Can I also add that you've started your slam investigation without finding out more about opener's shape? You don't even know yet if opener has a 5 or 6 card suit. I play an "over-jump" (1♥ - 2♠ or 1♠-2NT) to show invitational plus values and 4 card support (so 1 more step than you have) and then opener can relay "minimum hand, shortness, bal extras, etc" before I make any further investigations. I think shape first to see how well the hands fit together, then keycards, then specific honours works best. Well, at least in my opinion.
"Half the people you know are below average." - Steven Wright
#6
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Posted 2005-September-07, 10:43
Jlal - first let me say that I play limit raises with 3+ trump support. The 10-12 pt hands with 3 card support represent no problem.
I agree that the hands posted represents something of a problem - not sure how 2n would be interpreted after the 2♠ bid
I agree that the hands posted represents something of a problem - not sure how 2n would be interpreted after the 2♠ bid
#7
- Under bidder
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Posted 2005-September-07, 11:49
Two comments:
1) Agree with Justin that the raise to 2M is a great bid that I wouldn't give up lightly.
2) Your responses to the asking bid are far from optimal, to say the least.
1) Agree with Justin that the raise to 2M is a great bid that I wouldn't give up lightly.
2) Your responses to the asking bid are far from optimal, to say the least.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#8
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Posted 2005-September-07, 13:42
There was an article in the ACBL bulletin a while back about "inverted major raises." I actually tried playing them for a bit in the context of a four-card major system where we almost never raised on three. It was amusing but really not all that effective.
Another interesting approach is to use most bids as transfers. So after 1♠:
1NT = 5+♣, or a balanced hand without a fit
2♣ = 5+♦
2♦ = 5+♥
2♥ = 3+♠, good raise of spades (i.e. limit+)
2♠ = normal spade raise
Another interesting approach is to use most bids as transfers. So after 1♠:
1NT = 5+♣, or a balanced hand without a fit
2♣ = 5+♦
2♦ = 5+♥
2♥ = 3+♠, good raise of spades (i.e. limit+)
2♠ = normal spade raise
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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