[mike777]

3clubs, I do not want to give up on slam yet.

FTL=13-2+(0 or +1)=11 or 12 tricks
13=total tricks, minus 2=combined 2 shortest suits, Plus zero=19-21 whcp, plus one =22-24 whcp.

[pclayton]

Part II

I bid 4♥. Pretty hard to construct a hand that makes more in clubs than it does in hearts. Surely, pard has some spade card that can stop an annhiliation in hearts via a tap.

Now - the opps have 9+ spades. The spade void tells me that we might have a double game swing - especially if they are double fitted with diamonds.

Say you bid 4♥. LHO (as expected) bids 4♠. Pard doubles. Do you pull?

[SoTired]

SLAM

you have 4 losers. The missing cards are ♥A, ♦AK and ♣K. To make slam you need partner to have 3 of those. Tell me how you can find 3 of them in your partner's 6-9 (bad 10) hand? Would you call xxxx xx AKxx Kxx a "bad" 10? (not counting the fact it is PERFECT).

3C gives LHO a chance to bid his big hand with 5 bad spades at the 3-level. Make him decide at the 4-level.

[Al_U_Card]

Hannie, on Sep 12 2005, 02:57 PM, said:

BTW, Doesn't Murphy's law state that once something goes wrong, you should expect more things to turn against you? So far things have gone pretty well, we picked up a good and interesting hand and partner has shown a balanced hand without spade length/strength.. what more can we expect?

Anything that can go wrong, will. (sooner or later, I suppose) You have a fair fit and half the deck with good prospects for a competitive situation. Jacking the hand may be the best option, but pard has given you a warning (advice?) with the 1NT. Maybe they will overstep their hands.....who will blink first?

I concede that my position is so conservative (somewhere right of Atilla the Hun) that I accept a bid of 3H as reasonable. (For me, of course.)

[han]

Slam is excellent opposite xxxx xx AQxx Kxx, is that too much to ask for? We "know" the diamond finesse is on.

I really wanted to bid 4C to say "this is actually a 4H bid but I have clubs too, in case they bid 4S". Unfortunately 4C does not say that, partner is allowed to raise. 3C does not have this problem, partner will rarely jump to 5C. 3C makes it a little easier for the opponents to bid spades, and it doesn't show this kind of distribution. However, it may be the only only way to find slam.

I'm not sitting for 4S, so 5C. Partner either has 3 decent spades or 4 small ones, in either case I'd like to pull. Had I bid 4C last round then I could leave this decision to partner, but I really haven't shown my hand.

[awm]

I actually prefer 3♣ for much the same reason that Justin likes 4♥. In my experience people always bid 4♠ over 4♥. LHO will figure his partner for some values since you didn't try to push for slam. He will figure you have a bunch of hearts (probably MORE hearts than you actually have), your side probably has a big heart fit (heck you might have a big heart fit by yourself), and bid 4♠ as a two-way shot.

On the other hand, 3♣ is usually based on a much stronger hand. It could easily be 5-4 in the suits, or 6-3, or even a flat (5332) hand wanting partner to declare notrump with a spade stop. Often 3♣ shows in the vicinity of 19 hcp in pure values. I don't think LHO will be eager to bid over the 3♣ call, and when you back into 4♥ on a possible misfit auction after partner bids 3♥ on doubleton he may not bid 4♠ over that either.

I also don't think it's that far-fetched that this hand will play better in clubs. If partner holds four weak spades (as seems likely), the repeated spade tap will be very painful if we play in a 6-2 heart fit on a 4-1 break. If partner holds four clubs it's easy to imagine clubs being several tricks better.

It is strange that spades are not being bid... odds that partner forgot and bid 1♠ with five spades anyone?

[inquiry]

Al_U_Card, on Sep 12 2005, 03:14 PM, said:

inquiry, on Sep 12 2005, 01:30 PM, said:

ADDED...I did vote considering a 1♥ opening bid... but...  Just open 3!C MisIry.. hehehehe...

See higher up for the hand I proposed for pard. When you complete the description with 3H over 3D (that is correct, is it not?) can (should) he pass with that hand?

Jxxx, xx, KQxx, xxx versus
--, KQJTxx, xx, AQJTx

Realistically the Misiry auction will be...

3♣ - 4♦
4♥ - pass

Where 4♦ raises the preempt, and 4♥ is now compressed ♥/♣ two siuter with 3 or 4 losers. With all that !D stuff, not going to push to 5♣.

If responder is not willing to push the preempt,

3♣ = 3♦
3♥ - Pass

[Al_U_Card]

I guess Ben is chuckling in his MisIry......he has no such problems.

I just hate it when you have to justify your (losing) action with " I played you for ..... ) and pard just looks at you and says "Why not just let me have my say, I had a bid before you took away all my options."

[mike777]

Partner's x has warned us we may wasted spade values. So will settle for 5 level now. Are we not glad we let p know we have a huge h and club hand now to help them reevaluate their holdings?

[pigpenz]

me i just bid 4♥ and if its wrong on to the next hand

[pclayton]

Part III

I thought this was a good example of tactics vs science. To me - and the poll confirms this - is that its a 2 horse race between 3♣ and 4♥. For 4♥ to fail, the following must happen: pard can't have A♥ or the K♣, or a doubleton and hearts have to be 4-2 or worse. I'll take my chances in hearts, thank you. Sorry, underbids like 2♣ and 2♥ accomplish nothing, nor does 3♥. Is it really asking so much for pard to cover one of our 4 losers?

The best thing about 3♣ is that it allows pard to evaluate his hand better. He will love the A♥ and the K♣, like pointed aces, and write off lower pointed suit honors. But 3♣ lets LHO in one level lower, which may be crucial. As long as we are bashing this into 4♥, lets put the pressure on them right away.

Pard actually had: AT9x, x, QJTx, 9xxx. Of course I pulled the double, and quietly went -1 (they butchered the defense) in 5♣. To show how bad they were - the pair was getting into 'philospohical' arguments over what is the correct card to play from a small doubleton when pard leads and ace from A-K. They play UD Attitude, but standard count.

We really get rich in 4♠ - I think its -800, although with the K♣ off, we have the entries for the tap. If the K♣ is in the pocket, 4♠ goes for a zillion.

In my partnerships, we don't autosplinter in these auctions. Hands like: Axx, AKJTxx, AQx, x are opened 2♣. So a 4♣ call really can't exist.

I think you can tell where I'm going with this. I think the best call of all is 4♣, if its agreed to be fitted. It tells pard where our values are and makes LHO take a call at the 4 level. If pard THEN cracks 4♠, we will sit happily, knowing we have described our hand to a tee.

[mike777]

Ok confused I cannot bid 1s with AT9x of spades over 1H?

[pclayton]

Jlall, on Sep 12 2005, 01:57 PM, said:

huh? I think it shows if you dont show spades when you have spades that partner will pull your Xs. I bet he forgot, because this is not like a 1H X 1N bid, this is like a 1H X 1S bid.

Edit: oops mike said it first

No he didnt forget - 1♠ (1N) isn't terrible.

[the hog]

I came to this thread late. I like a 4H bid. Its practical and gives little away. It also doesn't search for the Holy Grail. If you "know" that slam is on opposite AQ of Ds and the K of C, then have you never played anyone who doubles on AKJx Ax Jxxx xxx

[pclayton]

In case anyone is curious - to show spades, pard makes a redouble.

[han]

The_Hog, on Sep 12 2005, 10:30 PM, said:

I came to this thread late. I like a 4H bid. Its practical and gives little away. It also doesn't search for the Holy Grail. If you "know" that slam is on opposite AQ of Ds and the K of C, then have you never played anyone who doubles on AKJx Ax Jxxx xxx

Of course I don't "know" that slam is on, but let's say it is more than 50% that the doubler has the king, also because her partner couldn't scrape up a bid over 1S while they have 9 or 10 spades.


Phil, I don't think that the 1S call is reasonable. These are 4 good spades and most importantly, the hand is not balanced. So it is a double misdescription. I assume that responder can show spades by redoubling.