BBO Discussion Forums: Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? - BBO Discussion Forums

y66, on 2016-November-09, 09:40, said:

Highly wishful thinking. Basically thinking that Trump will turn his back on virtually everything he has been saying up to now.

billw55, on 2016-November-09, 09:56, said:

I agree. It is a mistake to believe everything that a politician promises, but it is a bigger mistake to think what he says is totally disconnected from what he plans to do. For one thing, this would seriously alienate the people who voted fro him.

He is, at least in some sense, a Republican. The Republicans have a majority in the Senate and in the House. They now have serious responsibility for our future. No doubt this will have some effect, hopefully moderating some of the most extreme views. But basically, I expect that Trump and the R's in the Senate and the House will do what they have said they will do. Goodbye to the ACA for example. I hope they rethink the "Hillary for prison" mantra. We shall see.I think it is in the area of foreign policy that I have my greatest worries, although there is plenty to choose from everywhere.

billw55, on 2016-November-09, 09:56, said:

Politicians say lots of things to get elected, much of it falls by the wayside. Much of what Trump said was nonsense. Let's hope that he realizes that it was just political rhetoric, not realistic policies.

And remember that the President is not all-powerful. It's true that things go smoother for him when he's aligned with the party in power in Congress, but they still have to answer to their constituents.

For instance, he said one of the first things he'll do is repeal Obamacare. But lots of Americans now have health insurance who didn't before, they're not going to want it taken away from them.

Hillary's concession speech was not only good, it was important. I believe it will be remembered.

barmar, on 2016-November-09, 10:14, said:

I disagree. Scrapping the ACA is going to be agenda #1, and will succeed. The R majorities in congress have been after that since day 1. I see no evidence that taking coverage away from people is on their list of concerns.

cherdano, on 2016-November-09, 02:03, said:

This was as big a shock as the other one for the day!

English batters successfully attacking Indian spin bowling in India!
What surprise lies around the next corner?! Putin to step down?

I watched the returns on, for the most part, PBS. They had an R guest who described himself as "not from the wing of the party that thinks Putin is a good guy". I'm not sure who he was. Anyway, he was asked for the biggest piece of the explanation and he cited the ACA. Approximate quote: "Obama said there would be no increase in price and you could keep the doctor you had, and many found this not to be true." My unscientific casual observations suggest that there is something to this. At any rate, I saw part of the Ryan press conference today. Again an approximate quote: "We have passed bills to change or abolish the ACA, but they get vetoed. Now they won't be vetoed."

Now it is true that Trump has promised, as he often does, to replace it with something really terrific. Finding the really terrific replacement could be a challenge. It is always easier to put something down than it is to do something better. But I will be very surprised if the ACA survives in anything like its current form.

Note: The Dow is up a bit, and they were interviewing a Wall Street type. He thought this was partly because the drug companies see more profits in their future. He was very happy about that.

But I said earlier I am not making predictions, and here I am making predictions. It's true that I don't know what happens next, and neither does anyone else.

hrothgar, on 2016-November-09, 06:42, said:

Very well said, except that Hillary actually LOST!

The ONE blemish on this otherwise glorious event is that all the Americans who savagely attacked (& continue to do so) Trump & his supporters will end up being saved by a Trump presidency along with those of us who were his staunchest supporters. If there were any justice, they'd be sent to a country that shares their nihilistic worldview like Brazil or Sweden or here to Canada.

My biggest regret is that the Republicans were rewarded for their obstructionist policies of the past 7 or so years. I had thought the electorate intelligent enough to see through the Trump con; I was wrong.

I accept the decision and hope for the best; my greatest hope is to be proven wrong once again; I have serious doubts.

jonottawa, on 2016-November-09, 13:04, said:

Wow, you are quick. Everyone else knew this many hours ago.

jonottawa, on 2016-November-09, 13:04, said:

Saved from what?

billw55, on 2016-November-09, 13:25, said:

Saved from economic ruin. Saved from unnecessary wars. Saved from a tyrannical government that serves the donor class to the detriment of everyone else. Saved from limits on free speech. Saved from a North-Korean type media (& social media.) Saved from pervasive corruption & nepotism. Saved from a Supreme Court that completely disregards the constitution. Among other things.

Anyway, y'all won't be convinced by me & I CERTAINLY won't be drinking your Koolaid so hopefully we can agree to disagree & at some point in the future you can send me a private note commending me for my wisdom and foresight.

jonottawa, on 2016-November-09, 13:04, said:

Yeah, due to the system used, she got more votes

I was thinking this morning about when Nixon won and at least the people I knew, were sure that nuclear war was just around the corner. Aside from Watergate, he seemed from here, to have done a much better and somewhat different job of it than was expected. I can only hope the same will hold true but really, expectations are so awful, if Trump just does a few things differently from what he was bleating about in the campaign he will beat expectations. Not counting the wall, which is an absurdity that I cannot imagine the others will go for no matter what he wants to do... Trump likes walls to keep out the riffraff.

Goodbye environment though. People living in the watersheds of the pipelines have my sympathy. There WILL be leaks, the incidence of leaks is already way up and rising. You can live with a bad government, you cannot live without nonpoisonous water. Trump has shares in Sunoco, apparently, so this is devastating news to the folks at Standing Rock.

jonottawa, on 2016-November-09, 13:37, said:

Works for me.

jonottawa, on 2016-November-09, 13:37, said:

saved from economic ruin by a man who has declared bankruptcy I believe at least FOUR times? And cheating his creditors each time? And by refusing to pay his workers? Do you think this economic strategy will work on a global scale?

Saved from corruption by a guy who gives cars to Mafia bosses? Saved from the people serving the rich as opposed to the "others" by a guy who won't allow "just anyone" on his golf courses, has been taken to court for stiffing his workers and stealing the money given to him for charity and using it to decorate his own house? Or by scamming people by offering university classes which don't exist? you have certainly been drinking some sort of koolaid.

Oh yes, I read the other day that the Toronto version of Trump Towers has just gone into bankruptcy. Such a terrific businessman

Random musings 12 hours after the bomb detonated:
)
I was paranoid last night when the S and P futures had dropped 5% and triggered circuit breakers (do these even exist?). I almost dumped my portfolio for metals this morning (can I invest in canned food?) but I’m glad I didn’t. I am very biotech heavy (I own a lot of EXEL) and its crushing today on a Hillary loss since one of her platforms was cheaper drug prices. In addition, Prop 61 in California also failed which would have also hurt pharma revenue. That’s about the only good news.

ACA is DOA. Not only that, this will endear Trump to Tea Party Republicans and you’ll see more silly legislation next year. But ACA did not pan out as planned – there weren’t enough healthy folks joining and the penalty wasn’t enforced / got sidetracked by legislation. Premiums doubling was not an urban myth. Killing ACA will be a major victory, and it may stop the immediate need on other policy positions like the Wall. I am very concerned about Roe V Wade, Gay Marriage and other important cases. Social reform is effectively dead for the Supreme Court. Climate Change will take a back seat. I expect the Keystone XL will get revived.

Most of use either live on the coasts or are from overseas and we aren’t in touch with whats been happening in the middle of the country. There is an ideal that these people are hard-wired with – the area will be provide manufacturing jobs and they will be able to support their families. Many of these uneducated whites hold down service jobs and watched their communities stagnate as places like San Jose and Alexandria thrive in the new economy. They want someone else to blame for their crappy existence and that person was Hillary. Hillary never had a good message – and not only was she part of the problem, she WAS the problem. The Foundation was such an easy target and she felt like her firewall states could prevent this from happening, but there was such strong Trump support in in non-urban areas, and he held his own enough in urban areas.

This is how I see a lot of Trump supporters – its like the rebellious teenager that runs away from home. For the first ½ day its new and exciting but then reality sets in when there’s nowhere to sleep and nothing to eat. I think they liked the “idea” of a Trump presidency so much that they never really considered WTF would happen if he won.

The sun will come up tomorrow and I’m holding my long term positions until 1/1 because I have a lot of gains this year. I’m going to turn defensive and keep my powder dry for awhile, but there may be some interesting sectors to invest in.

jonottawa, on 2016-November-09, 13:37, said:

I'm going to save this. Because I want to see what it looks like in 4 years - maybe even 2.

I would say that that's what the U.S. have saved *for* themselves, not from.

We shall see.

I said earlier in this conversation that I have friends and friends of friends who will not survive a Trump presidency. I really hope that was hyperbole. We shall see that, too.

As a side note; since every First Lady has some sort of agenda or pet project, apparently Ms Trump has as her project putting an end to bullying on the Internet. You might want to reconsider the idea of
"unfettered free speech" which generally translates into wanting people to be able to spout all sorts of hateful vitriol about others without consequence. Supposedly the next First Lady isn't agreeing with you there. uh oh.

I reckon it must have been Farage that swung the vote ...