BBO Discussion Forums: unusual sequence - BBO Discussion Forums

This came up in a (local) MSC problem and I found it interesting. I will probably post the problem itself at some point but first a double question. The bidding starts:

1♠ - (P) - 1NT - (P);
2♠ - (3♥).

What would Double mean now by Responder, and does it make a difference whether 1NT is forcing or not?

If 1NT is NF then it is quite clear that it is penalty.

If 1NT is forcing then it could be useful to play double as showing 10-11 points with doubleton support. It would be an optional double, then. But I still think that penalty is best.

Penalty. We're getting rich.

I think it is the other way around ( Helene ).
If Responder had a ♥ stack but not enough points for a 2/1 GF, s/he would be relegated to bid 1NTF first .... so in this case X would be penalty .

If non-forcing 1NT, s/he could bid 2H ( 1 Rnd forcing ) .
But in this case, I don't know what the X should mean .... I think you need prior discussion on this one -- would Responder have 4 cards ♥ ( can't have 5 since could have bid 2H w/10,11 hcp ) or ♥-shortness ?

I play forcing NT with a limited 2♠, so X is penalty and shows values plus some heart length, as I play it.

Playing non-forcing (which I don't), then it is not so clear for me, but if 1NT can be passed, and 2♠ is to play, while responder may perhaps be wanting to make a spade game invitation, conceivably wanting X for that, there is also the need to cater for, say, a 10 count with 4 hearts, and this would seem more common. So I would think penalty also.

Maybe forcing/non forcing NT does not come into it. Perhaps it depends on whether 2♠ is limited to say a 14 count or whether it can be stronger. If it could be 16, then there are reasons in both treatments to make it spade game invitation.

Punish them!

PhilKing, on 2013-April-08, 08:40, said:

I agree with Phil, but I think he could have made his point more forcibly....

helene_t, on 2013-April-08, 05:32, said:

With 10-12 points and doubleton support, not wanting to insist on penalty, responder could scrape up a 3S bid opposite partner's known 6 of them. Penalty is definitely best for the double.

both are penalty, of course. take out? for what? If pd has a minor worth to bid at 4 level, bid it.

aguahombre, on 2013-April-08, 10:02, said:

Then what will you do with a 3145 6 count?

yunling, on 2013-April-10, 10:24, said:

raise spades the first time?