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Another opener with 4D and 5C please don't comment, just take the poll

Poll: Your bid as dealer? You are playing 15-17 NT (48 member(s) have cast votes)

Your bid as dealer? You are playing 15-17 NT

  1. one club (26 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  2. one diamond (20 votes [41.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.67%

  3. other (2 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2005-September-11, 20:55

Scoring: IMP

Your bid as dealer

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#2 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2005-September-11, 21:00

one club, 2 clubs over 1 spade...

If the opp cannot overcall on this auction it must be our hand. Will pay off to roth stone players
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2005-September-11, 21:58

but have no issue with 1D.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2005-September-11, 22:00

1D obviously
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#5 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-September-11, 22:11

guess people didnt notice "dont comment" oops...I guess I didn't either :)
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 01:57

Clear 1♦...

However, pass might be a good choice as well :)
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#7 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 01:59

I think there should be three options:
1♣ and rebid 2♣ over 1♠
1♣ and rebid 1NT over 1♠
1♦
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#8 User is offline   coyot 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 05:24

I don't have any problem rebidding clubs twice. My partner KNOWS that 2♣ may be done on 5card with this shape and not enough strength to reverse. I might occasionally end up in a bad partscore on 6 trumps, but I don't really care.

I don't want to open 1♦ and rebid the longer clubs later and I dont want to rebid 1NT, because getting partner into 4♠ on a bad fit with playable 3NT is not a good idea...
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#9 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 06:04

coyot the problem is not that partner won't know about it, but that partner can't do anything about it! Suppose partner has something like:


He will have to pass before things get out of hand, and yet you have a much better fit available.
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#10 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 06:07

Easy 1♦ for me...
Alderaan delenda est
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#11 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 07:27

I think that responding to a "pls don't respond" thread should get double credit. Why am I still Nasi Lemak?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#12 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 08:01

At 1000 you'll be something else I guess.
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#13 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 08:09

Gerben42, on Sep 12 2005, 01:04 PM, said:

coyot the problem is not that partner won't know about it, but that partner can't do anything about it! Suppose partner has something like:


He will have to pass before things get out of hand, and yet you have a much better fit available.

Or he might have a 5323, in which case he will give false preference and you will play in 2♦, even though you have a much better fit available.
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#14 User is offline   Walddk 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 08:48

MickyB, on Sep 12 2005, 04:09 PM, said:

Gerben42, on Sep 12 2005, 01:04 PM, said:

coyot the problem is not that partner won't know about it, but that partner can't do anything about it! Suppose partner has something like:
Dealer: ?????
Vul: ????
Scoring: Unknown
♠ KQ865
♥ J75
♦ T432
♣ 7
 


He will have to pass before things get out of hand, and yet you have a much better fit available.

Or he might have a 5323, in which case he will give false preference and you will play in 2♦, even though you have a much better fit available.

Or even worse: 5-4-2-2. I am not sure David Burn will approve. 4-2 fits usually don't play well.

Roland
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#15 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 09:40

Gerben42, on Sep 12 2005, 07:04 AM, said:

coyot the problem is not that partner won't know about it, but that partner can't do anything about it! Suppose partner has something like:


He will have to pass before things get out of hand, and yet you have a much better fit available.

Darn that suggestion for 2D to show this type of hand. The 2S (NF) bid gets 2NT (min. 11-14 and not a good 14-16) which shows 0-1 S which is then corrected to 3D to play.
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#16 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 12:15

Gerben42, on Sep 12 2005, 12:04 PM, said:

coyot the problem is not that partner won't know about it, but that partner can't do anything about it! Suppose partner has something like:


He will have to pass before things get out of hand, and yet you have a much better fit available.

I don't think organising your bidding to get to the correct 2m partscore should be near the top of anyone's list of priorities.

Given any system it is easy to construct problem hands, the questions to ask are "how often do the problem hands arise?" and "how much do we lose if they come up?"

Since very few hands are played in 2m, I don't think it matters much from either perspective which one you choose from this point of view.

However, if partner's ambitions run to more than a partscore I think that knowing which minor is longer is quite an imprtant peice of information.

Eric
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#17 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-September-12, 12:31

LOL - you think you can post a hand like this and not expect comments? <_<
"Phil" on BBO
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#18 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2005-September-16, 23:48

:P
I am aghast!! To say nothing of ept, gruntled and kempt. In poll after poll the hoi polloi vote two for one to open one club with 4♦ and 5♣. Do you not play the Sputnik convention or some other moderne version of the negative double???

When you open these hands one club, you may be risking life and limb in an ensuing competitive auction. Its just as simple as the ranking of the suits. If the auction goes 1♣ - 1♠ - dbl - pass, can you afford to bid 2♦ when poor ole pard may have based his double on a few values, 4 hearts and a modest club fit???

Try it the other way. Open 1♦. Now over LHO's one spade overcall (not a surprise since, on this hand, you own only 1/13 of that suit) partner can comfortably double to show four hearts and a few values with either four hearts and four diamonds or four hearts and four clubs (three will do in a pinch at the TWO level).

I just hate the idea of a bidding style that gets me too high through a system fix.
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#19 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-September-17, 00:19

jdeegan, on Sep 17 2005, 12:48 AM, said:

I just hate the idea of a bidding style that gets me too high through a system fix.

I hate the idea of a bidding style that doesn't allow me to bid my longest suit first and risks me getting to a 4-2 fit. To each his own, thats why its a style.
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#20 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2005-September-17, 09:43

jdeegan, on Sep 17 2005, 12:48 AM, said:

I just hate the idea of a bidding style that gets me too high through a system fix.

Then you had better give up the game :)

Every bidding system ever invented contains flaws such that you will end up in the wrong spot on some problem hands.
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