[Flame]

There is something i dont understand about the value of aces.
Generally aces are considered better then their 4 hcp value, you suppose to bid more when ur hcp are aces, but then every now and then i see world class players bid less because they have aces hand. a good example iv seen recently on VUgraph from GRUE a great player no doubt, his partner open one minor he has 4 4 cards heart suit with some 4432 distribution and bid 1H, partner support to 2H now grue passes, 12 hcp 3 aces opposite an opening partner many would say this must bid 4, but he didnt even invite.

[ArcLight]

Maybe his pard raised him on a 3 card heart suit, and he didn't like the idea of a 4-3 fit at the 4 level.

Also, the suit quality in hearts could be a factor. Axxx opposite Qxx if not fun.
Even Axxx opposite Qxxx can result in 2 losers.

He probably didn't see a source of tricks, or the ability to develop a suit.

[Flame]

I think maybe the best thing about ace is that they make other lower honors better like the K in AKX is worth a full trick rather then half a trick, and when my aces are alone they can apgrade only my partner's lower honors but not mine which make them less valuable. Does this make sense ?

[hrothgar]

Flame, on Aug 7 2006, 03:29 PM, said:

There is something i dont understand about the value of aces.
Generally aces are considered better then their 4 hcp value, you suppose to bid more when ur hcp are aces, but then every now and then i see world class players bid less because they have aces hand. a good example iv seen recently on VUgraph from GRUE a great player no doubt, his partner open one minor he has 4 4 cards heart suit with some 4432 distribution and bid 1H, partner support to 2H now grue passes, 12 hcp 3 aces opposite an opening partner many would say this must bid 4, but he didnt even invite.

Any idea what strength the 2♥ raise promises?
As I recall, Kranyak opens pretty light...

I suspect that the range of the opening bid is a lot more significant than the number of Aces that Grue holds...

[joshs]

Grue and Kraynyk open very light and jump to the 3 level very light. I saw them open 1D on a 4=4=4=1 11 count and then jump to 3H over a 1H response. I suspect that the single raise shows a hand thats really very bad. Having said that, to pass with 3 aces seems to be a big position....

[barmar]

A common term is "Aces and spaces" -- a hand whose only values are aces, and otherwise has very poor spot cards. The worst hand of this sort would be A32 A32 A32 5432. This would probably be considered by most to be a bad 12 count -- the increased value of the aces is offset by the horrible spot cards.

[Apollo81]

If their methods allow for making a different raise with 4441 12-counts and the like (as mine do), then passing 11 and 12 HCP hands in this position is not so strange.

Also, maybe this was a mistake? Good players do make mistakes.

-Noble

[benlessard]

3 aces is never never never a bad 12 count.


its not a bad 13 count either.

[barmar]

4333 with 3 aces is a 9-loser hand, or 7.5 losers when you adjust for aces versus queens. I'd definitely have to look at the quality of the spot cards when deciding whether to open.