[sathyab]

Scoring: MP

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The bidding starts

p p 1c p
1s p 2s p
3h p 4s p

You lead the King of Diamonds. Ace, 4, 2. You're playing UDCA. Declarer plays a spade from dummy, partner climbs with the Ace and returns the Jack of Diamonds, declarer following suit with 5. Your move.

[skjaeran]

Overtake the jack with the queen and play another for partner to ruff.

Partner surely would have returned the six from J63 originally, foreseeing my 'problem'. After all, bridge is a partnership game.

[jdonn]

skaeran, on Jul 8 2008, 01:09 AM, said:

Overtake the jack with the queen and play another for partner to ruff.

Partner surely would have returned the six from J63 originally, foreseeing my 'problem'. After all, bridge is a partnership game.

But then why wouldn't you play him for 63 doubleton? After the ace is played at the first trick he would certainly try to show a doubleton when he knows he has a trump entry to play his other diamond. I really don't think partner would return the 6 with J63 to start. In fact if he had that he would play the 6 first, knowing he will win his ace of trumps and return the 3. Since partner didn't do that I agree with overtaking. Also, even if declarer started with a doubleton diamond I don't think this is likely to be a useful discard.

[FrancesHinden]

I've only just caught the reverse count part of our signals - yes, partner clearly has Jx.

[andy_h]

Overtake and give partner a ruff

[Flameous]

Declarer should false card 5 and 6 so we'd have a real problem here.

[gnasher]

Declarer seems to be rather light for his game try. If his club holding were singleton ace, doubleton ace, or a void, we wouldn't be in this position, so we seem to be playing him for KQxxx Kxxx xxx x. Or maybe he has psyched with KQxxx xx xxx Axx?

Here's a layout where it's right to play low on ♦J: declarer has KQxxxx K10x xxx x. We leave partner on lead, he leads a low club away from his ace, and then declarer misguesses hearts. Is that too hard?

[FrancesHinden]

I think that's a bit obscure, although possible.

I really don't think partner has Jxx of diamonds. If he has, why on earth would he fly with the ace of spades on the first round from Ax or Axx? He would look a bit stupid when we have Qx...

[pclayton]

I was the declarer here.

I'm really enjoying the torture this seat went through on this hand.

[pclayton]

Here's another thought.

If you knew that you would be flying in with the ♠A at T2 and you held ♦J6, regardless of your signaling methods, wouldn't you play the J at T1? Isn't that the way to guarantee your ruff, and also to avoid pard overtaking when we held J64?

This does not seem any more far-fetched than 'anticipating' pard's problem and making the 'wrong signal' from J64 with the 6.

In other layouts - where pard might have the stiff ♠A - or we might need a shift through declarer - I would think pard is showing J64 and just wants to cash one trick before shifting, or is trying to engineer a cashout in case my hand holds 4♦'s.

[gnasher]

Jlall, on Jul 8 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

The 6 is not the wrong signal from J64, it is the normal signal. You always give count in these situations, you don't signal for the jack.

Me too.

I think it's a certainty that partner has ♦Jx.

[gnasher]

FrancesHinden, on Jul 8 2008, 04:29 PM, said:

I think that's a bit obscure, although possible.

I wasn't suggesting playing for that layout - it was just that I'd spent so much time dreaming up a layout where ducking was right that I felt the need to share it.

I'd definitely give partner a ruff, playing declarer for an overbid (KQxxx Kxxx xxx x) a misplay (KQxxx Kxxxx xxx - or KQxxx 10xxx xxx A) or a psyche (KQxxx xx xxx Axx).

[sathyab]

gnasher, on Jul 8 2008, 10:14 AM, said:

Declarer seems to be rather light for his game try.  If his club holding were singleton ace, doubleton ace, or a void, we wouldn't be in this position, so we seem to be playing him for KQxxx Kxxx xxx x.  Or maybe he has psyched with KQxxx xx xxx Axx?

Here's a layout where it's right to play low on ♦J: declarer has KQxxxx K10x xxx x.  We leave partner on lead, he leads a low club away from his ace, and then declarer misguesses hearts.  Is that too hard?

It appeared at the table that if declarer had a 5431 shape missing the ♠A, ♥AQJ and nothing in ♦, he most likely had the ♣A. But in that case why didn't he unblock it and pich his ♦losers immediately ? It all got quite confusing at the table. Finally I resolved it by telling myself that "playing the ♦4 and now ♦J" is consistent with an original holding of ♦J4 and if I don't give partner a ruff it'll go away on an eventual club or on the long heart in dummy". Disaster ! Partner had ♦J64, declarer pitched his losing club on the ♦T. I bet few of you would have conceived of that occurence even if you were looking at all four hands And of course thereafter it was just routine for declarer to play the heart suit for no losers, making 11 tricks !

[karlson]

I'm still not sure why it's unplayable for the signal here to be attitude. Why can't we play low from J64, high from 64 and 654?

Of course if we know we're getting in immediately with the trump ace, then we can try to make things clear. Speaking of which, why don't we just play the J under the K and then return our other one? Partner is forced to get it right now. I suppose this could be very bad if partner had 6 diamonds, but depending on my trumps, it might not even cost.

[Codo]

If you play length signals, this is easy of course with udca he had shown 2 or 4, give him a ruff.
With std. signals he had shown 3 diamonds so you should easily duck the jack.

If you play attitude signals, the 4 shows the wish to continue this suitbut this does not help you to decide whether to overtake or not.

If you have an inspired partner looking at Ax in spades and Jx in Diamonds, he had played the Jack first round, because he had anticipated your problems one round earlier then Haralds partners.

If he is as sleepy as usual, you should overtake, because why should he take the ace first round if he does not want a diamond ruff? (There may be reasons, but the highest possibility is a diamond ruff).

So, do you think your partner is sleepy?

[gnasher]

As Skaeran said two days ago, if partner's signal at trick 1 is attitude for the jack, from an original Jxx he should lead a low one back.

[skjaeran]

gnasher, on Jul 10 2008, 10:43 AM, said:

As Skaeran said two days ago, if partner's signal at trick 1 is attitude for the jack, from an original Jxx he should lead a low one back.

Actually, I didn't care at all what signal were in use.
My partner would lead back the jack from Jx and a low from Jxx (if he was awake) whatever signal we used and whatever spot cards he had played to the first trick.

This is pure logic and partnership trust.

[nige1]

sathyab, on Jul 8 2008, 12:59 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ T953 ♥ AJ8 ♦ AT7 ♣ KQ6 ♠ J8 ♥ Q9 ♦ KQ983 ♣ JT53

The bidding starts p      p    1c  p 1s    p    2s  p 3h    p    4s  p You lead the King of Diamonds. Ace, 4, 2. You're playing UDCA. Declarer plays a spade from dummy, partner climbs with the Ace and returns the Jack of Diamonds, declarer following suit with 5. Your move.

Overtake ♦] with ♦Q and lead another. If partner was dealt ♦Jxx, I think he should follow to trick one with his middle ♦ or lead back a small ♦.