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T/O Problem Given to me by a friend...

#1 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 18:36

NV vs V, partner deals and you hold:

A65
AKQ8
AJ53
98

Pass - (1♣) - X - (Pass)
1♠ - (Pass) - ?

Sorry if this is wtp.
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#2 User is offline   655321 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 18:39

2♣ is normal.
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#3 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 18:39

2♣ is pretty obvious. If partner then disappoints with 2♦/♥/♠, I chicken out.
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 19:31

Funny, but I thought 1NT would be normal.
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#5 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 19:34

kenrexford, on May 20 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

Funny, but I thought 1NT would be normal.

Normally I like stoppers in the suits the opponents are bidding to offer no trumps.
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#6 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2009-May-19, 19:36

Cascade, on May 19 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

kenrexford, on May 20 2009, 01:31 PM, said:

Funny, but I thought 1NT would be normal.

Normally I like stoppers in the suits the opponents are bidding to offer no trumps.

Me too. Especially when pard's stopper is lying bare on the table.
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#7 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 00:33

Even in the places where 1 spade is more limited then in the US, this is a wtp 2♣
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#8 User is offline   mich-b 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 01:22

2C wtp.
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#9 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 04:09

Bidding 1NT risks playing in 1NT with a 4-4 red-suit fit. With a bad hand and 4-4 in spades and a red suit, partner will pass 1NT but show the second suit over 2♣.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#10 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 06:30

1NT is absolutely normal. If pard is worried of stoppers, he can bid 2♣ himself.

2♣ shows a quite stronger hand in my book.
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#11 User is offline   marcD 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 07:30

Thought this hand is far from being a wtp hand. The 3 options I would consoider are pass, 1NT and 2♠. 2♣ would promise a rebid in my system. I think it is a close call between Pass and 1NT
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#12 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 07:37

gnasher, on May 20 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Bidding 1NT risks playing in 1NT with a 4-4 red-suit fit.

Pard will usually bid 1♥ with a 44 majors. So, if he has hearts, he'll probably have 5 spades and won't pass 1NT.
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#13 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 07:57

whereagles, on May 20 2009, 02:37 PM, said:

Pard will usually bid 1♥ with a 44 majors.

I know some people do this, but I don't understand why.

With 4-4 in the majors and a hand that plans to bid again in competition, it's obviously best to bid 1♠ first, so that you can bid 2♥ on the next round and offer partner a choice without forcing to the three level opposite 3-4 in the majors.

With a hand that's too weak to plan to compete again, it's still right to bid 1♠ first, because it leaves you prepared for the possibility that partner will cue bid - again you can bid your second suit without risking raising the level.

This situation is completely different from responding to an opening bid. When you bid 1♥ in response to 1m, partner will freely bid 1♠ on a four-card suit, so the fit isn't lost. After (1♣) dbl (pass) 1♥, the takeout doubler will almost never bid 1♠ on a four-card suit.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#14 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 10:47

gnasher, on May 20 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

whereagles, on May 20 2009, 02:37 PM, said:

Pard will usually bid 1♥ with a 44 majors.

I know some people do this, but I don't understand why.

With 4-4 in the majors and a hand that plans to bid again in competition, it's obviously best to bid 1♠ first, so that you can bid 2♥ on the next round and offer partner a choice without forcing to the three level opposite 3-4 in the majors.

With a hand that's too weak to plan to compete again, it's still right to bid 1♠ first, because it leaves you prepared for the possibility that partner will cue bid - again you can bid your second suit without risking raising the level.

This situation is completely different from responding to an opening bid. When you bid 1♥ in response to 1m, partner will freely bid 1♠ on a four-card suit, so the fit isn't lost. After (1♣) dbl (pass) 1♥, the takeout doubler will almost never bid 1♠ on a four-card suit.

People were tought to bid "up the line" with a 4-4 so that's what they do :)

The case for bidding spades first is obviously good and your arguments are a nice way to see why B)
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#15 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 10:50

Agree 100% with gnasher above.
Kind regards,
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#16 User is offline   mtvesuvius 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 11:58

Thanks for the responses... Partner held KTxx Txx Kxx Txx, the Q♦ is of course onside, and the J♥ is doubleton... How do you get to 4♥ or 3NT, or are you content playing in a partscore? (if so, where?)
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#17 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 12:22

mtvesuvius, on May 20 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

are you content playing in a partscore?

Yes. 2♠.
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#18 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 16:32

kfay, on May 20 2009, 01:22 PM, said:

mtvesuvius, on May 20 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

are you content playing in a partscore?

Yes. 2♠.

Yes. 1NT. :)
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#19 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2009-May-20, 16:52

mtvesuvius, on May 20 2009, 05:58 PM, said:

Thanks for the responses... Partner held KTxx Txx Kxx Txx, the Q♦ is of course onside, and the J♥ is doubleton... How do you get to 4♥ or 3NT, or are you content playing in a partscore? (if so, where?)

Just to verify, my hand (1S bidder) was KT74 T53 K82 432. My partner took quite a view on the hand leading to quite an awkward auction

4H and 3NT are very lucky makes while 4S went 2 off in the other room.
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#20 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2009-May-21, 01:43

what's the proper rebid with the hand with the two kings? personally I'd like not to hold the hand.
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