[matmat]

230 MPG. WOW. and they calculated it in a perfectly legitimate, non-deceitful and understandable way!

[Al_U_Card]

Sadly, the electrical grid is supported by coal-fired plants etc.

Once geo-thermal, solar and eolian get into the energy supply (when pigs fly and the oil companies stop buying and suppressing patents) that number will actually be a help.

[matmat]

Al_U_Card, on Aug 11 2009, 11:25 AM, said:

Sadly, the electrical grid is supported by coal-fired plants etc.

Once geo-thermal, solar and eolian get into the energy supply (when pigs fly and the oil companies stop buying and suppressing patents) that number will actually be a help.

The issue I have with the marketing is that it preys on the math-ignorant masses. (as many other things do).

As far as cars go, imo, there are two useful metrics. One is money/mile, the other is pollution/mile. Problem is, of course, that neither of these two is very easy to measure.

[Fluffy]

matmat, on Aug 11 2009, 05:27 PM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Aug 11 2009, 11:25 AM, said:

Sadly, the electrical grid is supported by coal-fired plants etc.

Once geo-thermal, solar and eolian get into the energy supply (when pigs fly and the oil companies stop buying and suppressing patents) that number will actually be a help.

The issue I have with the marketing is that it preys on the math-ignorant masses. (as many other things do).

As far as cars go, imo, there are two useful metrics. One is money/mile, the other is pollution/mile. Problem is, of course, that neither of these two is very easy to measure.

WTF you should say money/km or pollution/km, I would even accept $/km

[Phil]

Would be more impressed with 230 MPH

[Al_U_Card]

Based on $ and availability maybe they should consider "revolt"?

[Al_U_Card]

Or how about:

"I took my girl out for a ride in my Volt and I got a discharge....."


Critic's review: "Shocking!" I.E.E.E.E.E.E.E.E ! Magazine.

[gwnn]

Hey I just saw 'Who Killed The Electric Car'. Something changed since 2006? Or was the documentary just biased/false?

[PassedOut]

gwnn, on Aug 11 2009, 02:56 PM, said:

Hey I just saw 'Who Killed The Electric Car'. Something changed since 2006? Or was the documentary just biased/false?

I saw that a couple of years ago and found it fascinating. People liked them so much that the cars had to be confiscated...

[ArtK78]

There are five windmills near the inland waterway as you enter Atlantic City, NJ, by US 30. The windmills provide some of the electricity for the residents of Atlantic City.

There is also a project in the planning phase to construct a number of additional windmills about a mile offshore in the ocean.

It is a start.

[Gerben42]

Quote

    There are five windmills near the inland waterway as you enter Atlantic City, NJ, by US 30. The windmills provide some of the electricity for the residents of Atlantic City.

Windmills are great! Just one problem, to make up your electricity supply you need base power and variable power. Base power is the part that needs to be available always. 24 hours per day. Variable power is needed only then when there is higher demand.

Problem: Wind power is VERY variable. Sometimes you have lots, sometimes you have none. For this reason, no country can get their % of wind power much higher than 15%. I think Denmark has 13% which is really already too high for comfort.

Quote

Sadly, the electrical grid is supported by coal-fired plants etc.

Yes, in all but 4 countries I think. But those 4 countries show the way forward (the 4 I can think of right now are Sweden, Switzerland, France and Iceland, maybe there are more).

[Fluffy]

I have heard some news on the fact because teh goverment wants to close a nuclear plant before its lifetime expires, and everybody is talking about pros/cons etc.

Spain has a big trend of wind energy, not sure of the percentage but I though it was higher than 15%. Couple of years ago on a very windy day we had to drop some energy because we were colapsing the system

You cannot stop wind mills, nor nuclear plants, so you've got to stop the coal (and maybe water I supose) plants.


Surelly best way to handle would be being able to store the energy, but can't think a useful way (if mass = energy then you could create mass then destroy it )

My house is full of laptops, cell phones, wii handcontrols, and stuff with rechargable batterries, the green guys could argue that you should use the extra energy there.

[helene_t]

An efficient way to store energy is to pump water from downstream a hydropower plant to the reservoir.

[hotShot]

If you can afford a Volt and if you have money to spare, just put some solar cells on your roof and gain the energy you need to drive.
You'll be a poor man, but you'll have a good ecological feeling.

[hotShot]

helene_t, on Aug 12 2009, 12:44 PM, said:

An efficient way to store energy is to pump water from downstream a hydropower plant to the reservoir.

Are you sure it is "efficient" and not just without an alternative to store large amounts of energy?

[helene_t]

Yeah. According to Wikipedia, efficiency is 70-85% which is much better than hydrogen-based fuel cells, and comparable to batteries.

[hotShot]

Thanks!
So you get 70-80% of the electrical energy that was produced with an efficiency of about 40% from fossil fuel. To me that cycle has an efficency of about 32%. But obviously i understand efficiency a little wider.

[helene_t]

Lol, I didn't claim that any cycle involving pump storage is efficient. Say you produce energy from mouse treadmills and feed your mice with cheese from panda milk from pandas fed with bamboo grown in electricity-heated greenhouses, then you can get overall efficiency close to zero.

[hrothgar]

hotShot, on Aug 12 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

helene_t, on Aug 12 2009, 12:44 PM, said:

An efficient way to store energy is to pump water from downstream a hydropower plant to the reservoir.

Are you sure it is "efficient" and not just without an alternative to store large amounts of energy?

Pump storage systems are extremely efficient

Here's a relevant quote from wikipedia

Quote

Taking into account evaporation losses from the exposed water surface and conversion losses, approximately 70% to 85% of the electrical energy used to pump the water into the elevated reservoir can be regained.[1] The technique is currently the most cost-effective means of storing large amounts of electrical energy on an operating basis, but capital costs and the presence of appropriate geography are critical decision factors.

[Al_U_Card]

Seems to me that the US power grid needs a $trillion$ or so to be able to handle (equalize and transmit) all input sources. With the proper infrastructure, the size of the system is such that wind/solar/geothermal somewhere would be able to fill the demand, no matter what the timing. So, eventual replacement of the coal-fired plants could be done without spending $trillions$ to refurbish or otherwise encourage "dirty" energy.