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3NT over preempt by passed hand

Poll: What is 3NT? (32 member(s) have cast votes)

What is 3NT?

  1. Does not exist (9 votes [28.12%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.12%

  2. Weakish t/o, 4405 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Two places to play (5-5) (8 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

  4. Two places to play (4M6c) (3 votes [9.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.38%

  5. Two places to play (any 4-6) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Two places to play (5-5) plus stopper (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. Two places to play (4M6c) plus stopper (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Two places to play (any 4-6) plus stopper (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. Flawed club preempt plus stopper (4 votes [12.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.50%

  10. Other (8 votes [25.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.00%

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#1 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 12:57

pass-(3♦)-pass-(pass)
3NT!
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#2 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 13:08

It isn't a 3 suited TO - that hand doubles. And it isn't 'to play'.

I'm inclined to say 'clubs and a major'.
Hi y'all!

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#3 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 13:24

Having two places to play is all well and good, but why does the major have to be at the 4 level?

I voted does not exist. If you do have two places to play, just bid the major at the 3 level. The auction does not have to end there.

After all, this is a hand that could not even open the bidding. Forcing the bidding to the 4 level is too big of a position to take.

It might make some more sense if the auction was (P) - P - (3♦) - P/ (P) - ?, as partner could have a good hand without an action and the preempter's partner was a passed hand. Here, though, the preempter's partner is not a passed hand and could have a good hand. That makes it more dangerous to force the auction to the 4 level on a two suited hand not good enough to open the bidding.
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#4 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 13:48

If my partner bid this I'd definitely take it as clubs and a major. I think it should be able to exist, what else can you do with like 5-7?
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#5 User is offline   manudude03 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 13:51

I was watching when this auction came up. My guess is that it should show clubs and a major (like 6-4). I try to avoid balancing overcalls into a new suit at 3 level on a 4 card suit.
Wayne Somerville
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#6 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 14:36

how about a bal 11??
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#7 User is offline   jamegumb 

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Posted 2010-August-25, 14:42

Seems dangerous for 5-5. Maybe some weak 6-6?

♠JTxxxx
♥x
♦
♣JTxxxx
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-August-26, 01:53

DNE for me. The only possibility for me is some 2-suiter, but we would've opened that already in 1st seat...
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#9 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2010-August-26, 02:31

"I have a diamond stopper. Do you happen to have 8 top tricks?"
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#10 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-August-26, 02:53

Clubs and a major but not 4-6, needs to be more shapely than that. None of the options say this.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#11 User is offline   WellSpyder 

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Posted 2010-August-26, 03:35

I've had a similar auction against me from a strong pair. The bidder had a 6-6 with good playing strength and felt the hand would be hard to show if he opened the bidding. Seemed a sensible meaning to me, but his partner was not on the same wavelength.....
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#12 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 01:35

WellSpyder, on Aug 26 2010, 10:35 AM, said:

I've had a similar auction against me from a strong pair.  The bidder had a 6-6 with good playing strength and felt the hand would be hard to show if he opened the bidding.  Seemed a sensible meaning to me, but his partner was not on the same wavelength.....

A while ago there was a 6-6 or 7-6 hand where pretty much everyone passed, even people with 2-suited openings available (because the playing strength was too much for a weak single/two suited 2M but the hand was too weak for 1M). I guess we could use it for such hands actually...
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#13 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 01:39

Vampyr, on Aug 26 2010, 02:31 AM, said:

"I have a diamond stopper. Do you happen to have 8 top tricks?"

Yep.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#14 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 02:14

I would take it as 55 (obviously it will usually be more than 10 cards) in hearts and clubs of course it could bid 3♥ so I shouldn't really take it as 55 but I still would.

Morale: don't bid 3NT as a passed hand if you're playing with me. Not even if you have hearts and clubs, maybe I'll change my mind.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#15 User is offline   MFA 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 03:39

Maybe the 2-suited interpretation with clubs and some (or any) major is good and logical, but absent partnership discussion I (or "we" rather) don't invent such things at the table. Never. By default 3N is natural if it is at all possible.

And it is possible here. There must be a club suit and hope to make 9 tricks opposite partner's likely weak NT type. Ax, xx, Tx, AJxxxxx. For instance. No diamond stopper seems more likely than not. Or perhaps there are only 6 clubs. Why bid 4♣ if we can bid 3N instead.
Michael Askgaard
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#16 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 04:20

I thought p would probably take it as either 4M6♣ or as clubs with a diamond stopper. I had 4♥6♣ and ♦Kx so I thought it would be ok in no matter how p took it.
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#17 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 04:26

Pretty aggressive Helene, especially with ♦Kx in front of preemptor.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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#18 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 05:01

MFA, on Aug 27 2010, 10:39 AM, said:

There must be a club suit and hope to make 9 tricks opposite partner's likely weak NT type. Ax, xx, Tx, AJxxxxx.

Isn't that example an opening bid? I think that would apply to any hand that is worth 3NT opposite a weak notrump.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#19 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 09:11

well, how about

Ax
xxx
Kxx
AT9xx

or

Axx
KQx
Qxxx
xxx
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#20 User is offline   hanp 

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Posted 2010-August-27, 09:26

Yeah those are good passes, agree with wereagles.
and the result can be plotted on a graph.
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