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Which game?

#1 User is offline   bd71 

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Posted 2010-September-05, 23:09

Scoring: IMP

P - 1♣
1♠ - 2N
?


You are playing 2/1, and have agreed NMF.

Do you look for a 5-3 fit and a spade game via NMF, or is this just a straight 3N call?
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#2 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2010-September-05, 23:37

bd71, on Sep 6 2010, 12:09 AM, said:

Scoring: IMP

P - 1♣
1♠ - 2N
?


You are playing 2/1, and have agreed NMF.

Do you look for a 5-3 fit and a spade game via NMF, or is this just a straight 3N call?

fwiw I checkback....of course that may not win..
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#3 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 00:09

It might have a disadvantage of giving extra info to the defence, but can you investigate a 5-3 fit and, having found it, offer 3N as a choice?
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#4 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 00:31

Search for the major suit fit.

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#5 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 00:47

I think we can handle giving the opps the extra information that responder has one more spade than already shown.
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#6 User is offline   mgoetze 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 03:28

Surely bid NMF at IMPs, at MPs maybe blast 3NT.

@aquahombre: the problem is not telling the opps what responder has, but you will potentially tell them that declarer has 4 hearts.
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#7 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 07:19

at these colors this is a borderline decision
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 07:27

NMF for me
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#9 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 07:31

3S for me - showing 5 as i play. i don't play checkback after 2nt jump-rebids. this method has the advantage that you can bid 3m nat and forcing to look for a slam and it doesn't involve partner disclosing his hand to the opps if you're just looking for the best game
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#10 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 07:53

mgoetze, on Sep 6 2010, 03:28 AM, said:

Surely bid NMF at IMPs, at MPs maybe blast 3NT.

@aquahombre: the problem is not telling the opps what responder has, but you will potentially tell them that declarer has 4 hearts.

Right, I forgot OP talking about NMF after 2NT rebid ---different style has different issues.

Edit: All the reasons for not agreeing "NMF" after 2NT rebid would be a hijack. But, there are other methods to check for 5-3 spade fit.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-September-06, 10:04

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#11 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 08:41

3nt can lose if pard has a doubleton in either red suit, especially diamonds so I would use NMF.

Flawed since you can run into a lead directing double as well as revealing pards heart holding but with marginal values for game the added safety of a possible 5-3 spade fit could be crucial.
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#12 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 09:25

Good question in the title. I will ask it from my partner, thank God for him, he will help us.
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#13 User is offline   peachy 

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Posted 2010-September-06, 09:54

Find the best game. Often, 5-3 spades is better than 3NT when we don't have so much in excess HCPs or number of tricks that it does not matter. Here, it might matter, which is why I would investigate with NMF.
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#14 User is offline   Rossoneri 

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Posted 2010-September-07, 10:00

gwnn, on Sep 6 2010, 04:25 PM, said:

Good question in the title. I will ask it from my partner, thank God for him, he will help us.

I clicked the 'Like' button.

Would lean slightly towards using NMF.
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#15 User is offline   tbr 

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  Posted 2010-September-08, 10:36

I'll do new minor forcing.
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2010-September-08, 10:57

I find bidding 3NT ridicoulous.
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#17 User is offline   Bbradley62 

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Posted 2010-September-08, 14:47

If you wouldn't use NMF on this hand, then you and your partner should agree that 3♦ means something else.
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#18 User is offline   pooltuna 

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Posted 2010-September-08, 16:03

Bbradley62, on Sep 8 2010, 03:47 PM, said:

If you wouldn't use NMF on this hand, then you and your partner should agree that 3♦ means something else.

how do you check to see if partner has 3♠s in his hand if you don't use 3♦? This assumes you are so inclined with this hand.
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#19 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2010-September-09, 02:07

pooltuna, on Sep 8 2010, 04:03 PM, said:

Bbradley62, on Sep 8 2010, 03:47 PM, said:

If you wouldn't use NMF on this hand, then you and your partner should agree that 3♦ means something else.

how do you check to see if partner has 3♠s in his hand if you don't use 3♦? This assumes you are so inclined with this hand.

Try 3S. It is easy to use it as a raise to 3NT, checking for a 5-3 spade fit. With 6 spades you would just bid 4S. Actually 3S is two-way, for people who rebid naturally after opener's 2NT rebid (forcing). Could be a 6+ spade suit with a hand too strong to just jump to game in spades. This style allows all 3-level bids/2NT to be natural and forcing (too simple for some, but a viable concept).

All the folks whose original 1S response doesn't show a responding hand can't do the above, because they need Wolff (not NMF) to bail out at the 3-level. All folks who consider this a game forcing auction don't need the artificiality of NMF after a 2NT rebid.

For those unfamiliar with natural bids:

1C-1S* shows a responding hand.
2NT* 18-19 HCP balanced, not 4 spades and not stiff spade.

Rebids:
pass=I lied about having a responding hand.
3C=shows clubs, forcing.
3D=shows diamonds, forcing.
3H=shows hearts, forcing.
3S=5 spades checking enroute to 3NT, or 6+ spades and slammish.
3NT=to play.

This idea probably won't catch on.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2010-September-09, 07:10

"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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