[Gerben42]

2♦ as both majors gives opponents a free shot. 2♥ is a different matter. Try it.

[whereagles]

Preempts are more effective when natural. This is because opps have only 2 chances to bid over them (direct and balancing). Multi (or transfer) preempts leave opps with 3 or 4 chances to enter the bidding, so, in theory, they are less bothersome for opps.

This is why I prefer natural weak 2s.

[Free]

Gerben42, on 2011-January-04, 10:41, said:

2♦ as both majors gives opponents a free shot. 2♥ is a different matter. Try it.

Yes, and definitely remove the strong element! If you really want strong options, then open these hands 2♣ so at least you find the best 2M contract when you're weak.

[whereagles]

Stuff like

2♥ = majors
2♥ = weak 2 in either hearts or spades

are harder to defend than the multi. You can come up with good schemes, but they all require some homework and hence the opener should be made brown sticker (if not HUM).

Other stuff like

2♠ = any 3-level wimpish pree

definitely requires detailed agreements and are, I believe, HUMs.

[hrothgar]

whereagles, on 2011-January-05, 09:08, said:

Stuff like

2♥ = majors
2♥ = weak 2 in either hearts or spades

are harder to defend than the multi. You can come up with good schemes, but they all require some homework and hence the opener should be made brown sticker (if not HUM).

The terms Brown Sticker and Highly Unusual Methods both have well established definitions.

Said definitions are actually based on specific criteria.
Sadly, "Whereagles doesn't like this bid" really isn't a practical guide for folks to use.

For the record, the HUM category applies to the entirety of a system and not an isolated bid.
The decision to categorize a system as a HUM is based on the definition assigned to one level openings and Pass.
Preemptive structures are pretty much irrelevent.

Brown Sticker is a characteristic of individual bids between 2♣ and 3♠.

A 2♥ opening that shows either hearts or spades is clearly brown sticker.
A 2 ♥ opening that promises 4+ cards in Hearts is decidedly not brown sticker

The very concept of a brown sticker convention is based on the whether or not a weak bid promises 4+ cards in a known suit. This is the single most important part of the definition.

Perhaps, you would be better off trying to create the concept of a "purple sticker" convention or a "plaid sticker" convention rather than redefine Brown Sticker to mean the opposite of what it does today?

[whereagles]

richard, remember to take your medication

[mgoetze]

whereagles, on 2011-January-05, 09:30, said:

richard, remember to take your medication

I just gave him an upvote, hope that helps.

[hotShot]

I once played a wide ranged weak only Multi to show a 6card M preempt and used 2M for 5 card preempts that could have a side suit.
But the competition was not good enough to know if that was a good idea.

[Phil]

Flannery please. And weak 2's.

Boring, I know.

[Siegmund]

Quote

Quote

opening (say) 2♠ as spades and a minor tells them how to play the hand

Doesn't exactly the same criticism apply to Wilcosz, only more so since you know it's 5-5?

As already mentioned, Wilkosz is more abiguous at least on opening lead, with no anchor suit; and, perhaps more importantly to me, it puts all of the 'criticism' on one opening, rather than on both 2H and 2S (and maybe also a third bid,if you want to cover all two-suiters.)

[Vampyr]

manudude03, on 2011-January-03, 17:49, said:

The big gain with multi is that you gain 2 new openings (2H and 2S) that you can use for whatever you want (a lot of people use them for weak 5M/4+m hands).

Yes, I usually play weak 2's myself but have seen a lot of auctions stolen by Lucas-type 2's. Man, this new interface is truly hideous.

[Vampyr]

Phil, on 2011-January-05, 11:05, said:

Flannery please. And weak 2's.Boring, I know.

Flannery? For real?

[Free]

Phil, on 2011-January-05, 11:05, said:

Flannery please. And weak 2's.

Boring, I know.

Even when playing the F-convention, you can open 2♥ on the F-hands and play multi 2♦ (and have 2♠ still available). Granted, F-2♥ may be worse than F-2♦ (no experience with that actually), but you still have a choice what to do with your weak two's.

[Phil]

Yes - for reals.

Not a fan of F-2♥. One of the main reasons to play it is to get the known hand on the table. Also, playing in 2♦ is no longer an option (it happens).

[mich-b]

An important advantage of the Multi over weak 2s is that when responder has a good hand , and we end up playing 4-of-a-major,
we play it from responder's hand (it is not difficult to arrange your responses this way).

This is very good because :
1. The known hand is seen, and nothing is known about the closed hand (how many trumps? is there a side suit?
are there ruffing values?)
2. Since responder's hand is probably stronger , making it declare is likely to protect some honours on trick 1. (less important than (1) imo).

I think this advantage , makes your chances to make 4M (or sometimes 3M when you invite and opener rejects) considerably better. Most of the posters only discussed Multi's (obvious) drawbacks as a preemptive tool, but ignore this feature as a constructive tool on the way to bidding our game.

[nige1]

Tsetse Club uses Trypanosomiasis Twos:

• 2♣ = 8-12 HCP & 4+ ♣ & 4+ ♦.
• 2♦ = Multi: 5-9 HCP & 5+ major or 20-21 HCP flat.
• 2♥/♠ = 8-12 HCP & 4 of bid-suit & 5+ minor.
• 2N = 5-9 HCP & 5+ ♥ & 5+ any other.

[Free]

nige1, on 2011-January-06, 04:06, said:

Tsetse Club uses Trypanosomiasis Twos:

• 2♣ = 8-12 HCP & 4+ ♣ & 4+ ♦.
• 2♦ = Multi: 5-9 HCP & 5+ major or 20-21 HCP flat.
• 2♥/♠ = 8-12 HCP & 4 of bid-suit & 5+ minor.
• 2N = 5-9 HCP & 5+ ♥ & 5+ any other.

Your point being?

[nige1]

Free, on 2011-January-06, 09:07, said:

Your point being?

That whether you prefer multi to weak-twos depends not only on designing a coherent 2-level structure but also on the rest of your system

[nige1]

mich-b, on 2011-January-06, 03:54, said:

An important advantage of the Multi over weak 2s is that when responder has a good hand , and we end up playing 4-of-a-major, we play it from responder's hand (it is not difficult to arrange your responses this way). This is very good because :
1. The known hand is seen, and nothing is known about the closed hand (how many trumps? is there a side suit?
are there ruffing values?)
2. Since responder's hand is probably stronger , making it declare is likely to protect some honours on trick 1. (less important than (1) imo).
I think this advantage , makes your chances to make 4M (or sometimes 3M when you invite and opener rejects) considerably better. Most of the posters only discussed Multi's (obvious) drawbacks as a preemptive tool, but ignore this feature as a constructive tool on the way to bidding our game.

Agree with mich-b. For example, to the 2N relay, we respond as follows:
3♣/♦ = 5-7 HCP & weak-two in ♥/♠. Now 3♥/♠ are to play but 3♦/♥ are further relays.
3♥/♠ = 8-9 HCP & weak-two in ♠/♥.
3N = 20-21 HCP & flat.