[Winstonm]

Egypt's Wael Ghonim credits the internet for the overthrow of Mubarak in an interview with Wolf Blitzer. Here is the relevant excerpt from the transcript:

Quote

BLITZER: Wael, this is Wolf Blitzer in Washington. So first Tunisia, now Egypt. What’s next?
GHONIM: Ask Facebook.
BLITZER: Ask what?
GHONIM: Facebook.
COOPER: Facebook.
BLITZER: Facebook. You’re giving Facebook a lot of credit for this?
GHONIM: Yes, for sure. I want to meet Mark Zuckerberg one day and thank him, actually. This revolution started online. This revolution started on Facebook.
You know, I always said that if you want to liberate a society, just give them the Internet. If you want to have a free society, give them the Internet.

[1eyedjack]

Heh - I thought this was one of Scott Adams' better ones recently:
http://www.dilbert.com/2011-02-10/

And then, also I heard that when they "turned off" the internet in Egypt, they renamed the country - Gypt.

[babalu1997]

i do not buy it.

peaceful demonstratinons forced out a 20+ year military rule in brazil back in the early 80's.

access to email and internet then was likely limited to educational institutions and / or large corporations.

http://en.wikipedia....Diretas_J%C3%A1

[Winstonm]

babalu1997, on 2011-February-13, 12:59, said:

i do not buy it.

peaceful demonstratinons forced out a 20+ year military rule in brazil back in the early 80's.

access to email and internet then was likely limited to educational institutions and / or large corporations.

http://en.wikipedia....Diretas_J%C3%A1

In determining what technological adavancement was most similar to personal computers and the internet, it was judged that the telephone was the best example. Basically, a communication device.

Are you saying that in the early 1980's the populace of Brazil had no means of communication, not even telephones, newspapers, or even word-of-mouth?

In this sense Facebook and the internet only facilitated change by increasing the distribution of information to many people simultaneously - it was still the people who forced the change in governments.

Perhaps that is the reason China continues to hold such a tight leash on internet use - fear of a populace unified by the common flow of information?

[babalu1997]

Winstonm, on 2011-February-13, 13:17, said:

In determining what technological adavancement was most similar to personal computers and the internet, it was judged that the telephone was the best example. Basically, a communication device.

Are you saying that in the early 1980's the populace of Brazil had no means of communication, not even telephones, newspapers, or even word-of-mouth?

In this sense Facebook and the internet only facilitated change by increasing the distribution of information to many people simultaneously - it was still the people who forced the change in governments.

Perhaps that is the reason China continues to hold such a tight leash on internet use - fear of a populace unified by the common flow of information?

Did i say there were not telephones or news papers in brazil in the 1980s, of course we had them, even tho we still lived in the trees.

The media was controlled by govt, newspapers and televisions. artists and others with access to the populace went to live in exile in the late 1960s

there are telephones, radio and newspapers in cuba, as well as in china, when you live in a dictatorship they have a way to be inside your home

[y66]

1eyedjack, on 2011-February-13, 11:02, said:

Heh - I thought this was one of Scott Adams' better ones recently:
http://www.dilbert.com/2011-02-10/

And then, also I heard that when they "turned off" the internet in Egypt, they renamed the country - Gypt.

x 2

[kenberg]

I have yet to send my first Tweet. Start the revolution without me!

[Winstonm]

babalu1997, on 2011-February-13, 14:10, said:

Did i say there were not telephones or news papers in brazil in the 1980s, of course we had them, even tho we still lived in the trees.

The media was controlled by govt, newspapers and televisions. artists and others with access to the populace went to live in exile in the late 1960s

there are telephones, radio and newspapers in cuba, as well as in china, when you live in a dictatorship they have a way to be inside your home

I only wondered why it is you "don't buy it". The internet would be able to bypass the normal government channels unless the government used extreme measures, which in Egypt doesn't seem to have been the case.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2011-February-13, 15:14, said:

I have yet to send my first Tweet. Start the revolution without me!

I have never tweeted and do not have a facebook account. Does that make me status quo?

[helene_t]

Winston, what's your point? You cited Ghonim for saying "If you want to have a free society, give them the Internet." Ghonim didn't say "give them some means of communication, be it monkey howls or w/e.".

Then Lu points out that in Brazil they got rid of the dictator without the internet.

My guess would be that when Ghonim says "internet" he means "internet", not just "any means of communication". Because in the latter case there would be nothing new and the Arab upraisings might as well have happened before the internet era. The point is that they didn't.

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on 2011-February-13, 22:21, said:

I have never tweeted and do not have a facebook account. Does that make me status quo?

A (fellow) dinosaur, I think.

[Winstonm]

helene_t, on 2011-February-14, 04:05, said:

Winston, what's your point? You cited Ghonim for saying "If you want to have a free society, give them the Internet." Ghonim didn't say "give them some means of communication, be it monkey howls or w/e.".

Then Lu points out that in Brazil they got rid of the dictator without the internet.

My guess would be that when Ghonim says "internet" he means "internet", not just "any means of communication". Because in the latter case there would be nothing new and the Arab upraisings might as well have happened before the internet era. The point is that they didn't.

I have no point. I rarely do. If you had been paying attention you would have known that. But, then, what would be the point in doing that? Seems circular.

I just thought "I don't buy it" an odd comment. My mind is weird, so if you don't follow this it is O.K., but the comment struck me as if I had claimed the atomic bomb had helped end WWII, and someone said, I doubt it because wars have ended in the past without an atomic bomb being dropped. That Brazil rid herself of a dictator without the internet would not imply anything about the value of the internet in the Egyptian situation, would it? I could be wrong here - I've never been in this type situation.

I wasn't trying to be snotty or nasty, I just thought it a mistaken claim as information transmission occurs even word-of-mouth, but a free-flowing internet would make that information flow faster, it seems to me.

However, having never been in that situation in my lifetime, I bow to the experience of one who has.

Sorry if my intent was misunderstood.

[Fluffy]

There was a time when America revolutioned the world with its democracy, maybe in not that much time a country will have a real democracy where instead of politicians, laws are voted by people from their home.

[onoway]

Fluffy, on 2011-February-23, 10:57, said:

There was a time when America revolutioned the world with its democracy, maybe in not that much time a country will have a real democracy where instead of politicians, laws are voted by people from their home.

Seems to me that most speculative fiction writers generally see things playing out quite differently. Most people drawn to the perks of politics are unlikely to give them up very readilly I would think. Hasn't there already been some suspicion of shenanigans being involved with computer voting and that not even in people's homes?

Faith is a wonderful thing..it used to be "I read it so it must be true", and now it's "I saw it on the internet so".. Someone normally fairly with it who has lived near Lake Michigan for about 50 years just forwarded to me (in horror and all seriousness) some photos of monstrous icebergs supposedly floating about Lake Michigan this year as evidence of climate change. Unfortunately the photos were of icebergs off Antartica....

It's somewhat alarming as any idea through dissemination to enough people over enough time can move that idea from being rejected as bizarre and fantastic to accepted as a commonplace. This might work for tossing out "bad" governments but it cuts both ways. I saw today yet another item touting Sarah Palin as possibly the next US President.

[blackshoe]

onoway, on 2011-February-23, 23:12, said:

I saw today yet another item touting Sarah Palin as possibly the next US President.

Stranger things have happened.

[Fluffy]

onoway, on 2011-February-23, 23:12, said:

Most people drawn to the perks of politics are unlikely to give them up very readilly I would think.

Its not like the King of england was happy to let america have their democracy , this kind of changes would need a revolution

onoway, on 2011-February-23, 23:12, said:

Hasn't there already been some suspicion of shenanigans being involved with computer voting and that not even in people's homes?

The net doesn't look secure enough for people unfamiliar with electronics, alas! I don't find any of the current voting systems more secure. Politics sell their votes to companies, and a bunch of humans can count ballots incorrectly if they arrange it.

Even then security will improve in the future.

[Winstonm]

blackshoe, on 2011-February-24, 08:41, said:

Stranger things have happened.

Only in urban legends.