[jillybean]

MP ALL RED, 2nd seat

KJT, AK43, A92, A93

1♣:1♦
1♥:3♦
?

[Gerben42]

I would have rebid 2NT. Now I bid 4NT quantitative.

[ggwhiz]

Partners stuff for the 3♦ bid can't be all soft values unless they have a lot of it.

6♦ is probably safer in case they have a stiff club but I wouldn't shoot anyone that moved towards 6nt at MP's. I'm bidding 4♦ forcing or 6♦/6nt if it isn't.

I would have bid 2nt instead of 1♥ putting pard in charge.

[ArtK78]

What does go quietly mean? It certainly doesn't mean pass. The only question is whether there will be 12 tricks in diamonds or notrump. Opposite:

Axx
Qx
KQxxxx
xx

12 tricks are a claim and there is a lot of play for 13.

Switch the rounded suits:

Axx
xx
KQxxxx
Qx

and slam is still good.

But if partner's 3♦ call does not include the ♠A, then it may be critical to play the hand from my side in notrump.

Can partner's hand be much worse than the ones that I suggest for a 3♦ call? Not much less (especially given the crap that people open on today). He should have 6 good diamonds and about 11 HCP for his call. Most hands fitting that description will produce play for 6♦ and/or 6NT.

I would definitely move towards slam. It is more a question of which slam than slam or no slam.

[jillybean]

Gerben42, on 2011-April-13, 09:14, said:

I would have rebid 2NT. Now I bid 4NT quantitative.

We play XYZ, is 2N still the better bid?

[1eyedjack]

jillybean, on 2011-April-13, 09:28, said:

We play XYZ, is 2N still the better bid?

There are some interesting artificial uses of 2N rebid by opener out there, although I generally only encounter it in a system that uses transfer walsh 1 level responses, which is clearly not in point in your example. If systemically a 2N rebid is natural (what would you have rebid with 3-3-3-4 shape and 4 Clubs and the same values?) then it seems to me clearly the best rebid with this hand, regardless of whether you play XYZ.

[ArtK78]

jillybean, on 2011-April-13, 09:28, said:

We play XYZ, is 2N still the better bid?

If I understand XYZ correctly, partner's 3♦ call is a natural game force.

Assuming that this is correct, then I would be looking for a grand slam.

As for your question, I don't know enough about XYZ to tell you if 2NT is a better call than 1♥.

[jillybean]

1eyedjack, on 2011-April-13, 09:49, said:

There are some interesting artificial uses of 2N rebid by opener out there, although I generally only encounter it in a system that uses transfer walsh 1 level responses, which is clearly not in point in your example. If systemically a 2N rebid is natural (what would you have rebid with 3-3-3-4 shape and 4 Clubs and the same values?) then it seems to me clearly the best rebid with this hand, regardless of whether you play XYZ.

I may upgrade to 3N with 3-3-3-4 and the same values. I think this is a maximum for a 2N rebid and I see the advantage of bidding 1♥ here as allowing partner to further describe his hand or find a ♥ fit at a low level. (2♣ invitational, 2♦ game forcing, 2♥ fit).

If you do rebid 2N, partner bids 3♦.

[1eyedjack]

jillybean, on 2011-April-13, 10:44, said:

I may upgrade to 3N with 3-3-3-4 and the same values.

There we differ. I would never rebid 3N. At least not on a balanced hand. There is just two much bidding space consumed opposite a responder who is virtually unlimited as to shape and strength. I thought that in standard US methods a 2N rebid is limited only by the failure to open 1N at the lower boundary and open 2N at the upper boundary, leaving 3N as a redundant rebid in a natural context.

jillybean, on 2011-April-13, 10:44, said:

I think this is a maximum for a 2N rebid and I see the advantage of bidding 1♥ here as allowing partner to further describe his hand or find a ♥ fit at a low level. (2♣ invitational, 2♦ game forcing, 2♥ fit).

1H allows responder the ability to describe his hand at a low level. That is true. It also allows responder to pass 1H if he has a partial fit in Hearts and a subminimum response. So it has its upsides. The downside is that you don't get to describe your own hand (or if you do it will likely be at a higher level than an immediate 2N rebid). There are also significant benefits in having a 1H rebid confirm that your hand is unbalanced (with the possible exception of being too weak to open 1N, although a number of good players would still rebid 1N and bypass the major here in order to clarify the distinction between balanced and unbalanced hands).
It seems to me that if you want to rebid 1H with that, then you might as well go the whole hog and ditch a natural 2N rebid in favour of something useful but artificial, but that would take some work on the implications and probably not appropriate for this thread or forum.

jillybean, on 2011-April-13, 10:44, said:

If you do rebid 2N, partner bids 3♦.

Now I suppose 3H, preparing to support D later.
It may help to have some followup sequences defined following a 2N rebid to clarify serious slam interest.

[ArtK78]

1eyedjack, on 2011-April-13, 10:56, said:

1H allows responder the ability to describe his hand at a low level. That is true. It also allows responder to pass 1H if he has a partial fit in Hearts and a subminimum response.

Again, if I understand XYZ correctly, 1♥ is forcing. So responder should not pass with a subminimum response.

[1eyedjack]

ArtK78, on 2011-April-13, 11:06, said:

Again, if I understand XYZ correctly, 1♥ is forcing. So responder should not pass with a subminimum response.

Presumably this is to free up a 2H rebid as some artificial bid and no longer a natural reverse? OK, then. But if 1H is limited by failure to reverse into 2H I see little point in insisting that the 1H rebid is forcing, although I would never pass it unless I didn't actually have a 1D response.

[mike777]

jillybean, on 2011-April-13, 09:28, said:

We play XYZ, is 2N still the better bid?

If you are playing 3d as xyz first I think you should alert that. 3d in most versions of xyz is a slam try in D's. I look for the grand now.

------------------------


XYZ has nothing to do with how opener rebids here.
This looks like a normal 2nt rebid, in fact if you play Walsh style you cant ever rebid 1h with this shape.
1h is not forcing.

[cherdano]

You should rebid 2NT whenever you have 18-19 balanced and no 4card support for partner's suit. XYZ doesn't change this.

[jillybean]

Ok,thanks. Bad idea.