[blackshoe]

Try a different browser, David (Firefox, maybe, or Chrome). You're using IE 9, IIRC. Is anyone else using that browser having problems?

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2011-June-12, 13:24, said:

Try a different browser, David (Firefox, maybe, or Chrome). You're using IE 9, IIRC. Is anyone else using that browser having problems?

The only "problem" I have have is "Multiquote" which doesn't exactly work as intended.

However, I have found ways to circumvent this when needed, and from my experience with other browsers I can say that I have absolutely no intention of changing from IE9 to any other browser (except IE version 10 when it becomes available).

[blackshoe]

pran, on 2011-June-12, 15:47, said:

The only "problem" I have have is "Multiquote" which doesn't exactly work as intended.

Are you sure about that? The forum help feature says

Quote

Multiquote is used when you want to quote more than one post in your reply. Select the " MultiQuote" button underneath the posts you want to quote, and you will notice that the button will change color. To undo this, just press the button again. When you have marked all the posts you want to quote, press the " Add Reply" button as normal.

In my experience (using Firefox v. 4.0.1 on a Mac, at least), this is the way it works.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2011-June-12, 22:53, said:

Are you sure about that? The forum help feature says

In my experience (using Firefox v. 4.0.1 on a Mac, at least), this is the way it works.

Yes, "Multiquote" worked as stated until I went from IE8 to IE9. Now pressing "Multiquote" on any post has apparently the exact same effect as pressing "Reply" within that post and directly opens a comment window.

I have tried some alternative readers (including dropping back to IE8) but found them unsatisfactory, so I shall stick to IE9.

Be aware that even though the "Multiquote" problem appeared with IE9 this is no evidence that the error is in IE9. I do not defend IE9 without reservation but I have much experience from during my (now) 47 years in computer programming with programmers harmlessly violating specifications and then, when something is changed in their environment so that such violations become destructive, arguing that their programs must be error-free because these have worked as designed for so long time.

[gordontd]

pran, on 2011-June-13, 02:36, said:

Be aware that even though the "Multiquote" problem appeared with IE9 this is no evidence that the error is in IE9. I do not defend IE9 without reservation but I have much experience from during my (now) 47 years in computer programming with programmers harmlessly violating specifications and then, when something is changed in their environment so that such violations become destructive, arguing that their programs must be error-free because these have worked as designed for so long time.

Maybe, but we know that IE has always had a disregard for standards.

[pran]

gordontd, on 2011-June-13, 03:08, said:

Maybe, but we know that IE has always had a disregard for standards.

Do we?

[RMB1]

gordontd, on 2011-June-13, 03:08, said:

Maybe, but we know that IE has always had a disregard for standards.

pran, on 2011-June-13, 05:10, said:

Do we?

Yes. Not just IE but much of Microsoft has been able to set its own (de facto) standards, which it could do because of its market dominance, and ignore any internationally agreed (de jure) standards.

[blackshoe]

The fact that the problem appeared with IE 9 is most certainly evidence that the problem may be in IE 9's programming. What it is not is proof.

[pran]

blackshoe, on 2011-June-13, 09:37, said:

The fact that the problem appeared with IE 9 is most certainly evidence that the problem may be in IE 9's programming. What it is not is proof.

I have been involved (as user) with a scoring program that interfaces with the Dutch Bridgemate wireless system. There was one particular functionality they needed in this scoring program, and they found an apparently very smart solution for their programming. However, they overlooked that this solution violated one of the (published) specifications for interfacing with Bridgemate.

For years this violation was insignificant, but then the Bridgemate system was upgraded to a new version implementing functionality where this particular specification was essential. The immediate result was that the scoring program started to fail.

Do you say that this problem was in the scoring program or in Bridgemate programming?

During the years from around 1970 to 1980 I supported engineering where I was employed in the use of computer aided design, engineering and manufacturing (acronym CADEM). Fortran was the widely used language, and at one time I discovered that using loop control indexes outside programming loops was very common. The programmers had experimented and found out how it worked. What they did not appreciate was that this is an implementation decided feature which may change from one version to another version of the compiler. My people were completely deaf and dumb when I pointed out that they would have no excuse if their programs started to fail with a new version of the Fortran compiler, for instance when we eventually upgraded from DOS/VS to OS/VS (which we indeed did a couple of years later).

We finally managed to rectify this situation, but who would be to blame if their program suddenly had started to fail when we upgraded to a new system?

Serious programming must be done according to specifications, not by trial and error.

If IE9 has such errors I shall expect IE9 to be fixed within reasonable time, but I shall certainly not be surprised if this "multiquote" functionality depends on some questionable programming.

What I do hope is that the people behind this forum will analyze why "Multiquote" fails and then show if the cause is on their or the browser side of the interface. This should not be too difficult for the right person(s).

[blackshoe]

pran, on 2011-June-13, 12:00, said:

Do you say that this problem was in the scoring program or in Bridgemate programming?

who would be to blame if their program suddenly had started to fail when we upgraded to a new system?

Serious programming must be done according to specifications, not by trial and error.

If IE9 has such errors I shall expect IE9 to be fixed within reasonable time, but I shall certainly not be surprised if this "multiquote" functionality depends on some questionable programming.

1. The problem was in the design of the scoring program.
2. The designer or programmer of the program that failed.
3. No kidding.
4. As someone pointed out upthread, Microsoft is notorious for poor programming practices. It may be that the programming of the multiquote functionality is to blame, but it seems to me more likely IE9 is the culprit. I wonder if anyone else has seen this problem, and with what browsers.

Let's put this completely irrelevant (to this thread and this forum) digression to bed now, okay?

[bluejak]

I was enjoying it. Bwawawawawah!

But the spellchekka continues to work in my New Zealand forum using IE9. So I am using MulitQuote and spellchecking by transferring a reply to there, if necessary, several replies, then transferring th lot back.

[pran]

bluejak, on 2011-June-14, 08:11, said:

I was enjoying it. Bwawawawawah!

But the spellchekka continues to work in my New Zealand forum using IE9. So I am using MulitQuote and spellchecking by transferring a reply to there, if necessary, several replies, then transferring th lot back.

Please let me get this clear:

Are you saying that the "Multiquote" function works as intended when you use IE9 towards a different forum?

regards Sven

[mgoetze]

pran, on 2011-June-13, 12:00, said:

I have been involved (as user) with a scoring program that interfaces with the Dutch Bridgemate wireless system. There was one particular functionality they needed in this scoring program, and they found an apparently very smart solution for their programming. However, they overlooked that this solution violated one of the (published) specifications for interfacing with Bridgemate.

For years this violation was insignificant, but then the Bridgemate system was upgraded to a new version implementing functionality where this particular specification was essential. The immediate result was that the scoring program started to fail.

Do you say that this problem was in the scoring program or in Bridgemate programming?

I don't know whether you actually wanted this question answered but it is certainly a problem in the scoring program. Just as Internet Exploder is a very nasty little program for ignoring all the specifications for the web.

[pran]

mgoetze, on 2011-June-16, 12:35, said:

I don't know whether you actually wanted this question answered but it is certainly a problem in the scoring program. Just as Internet Exploder is a very nasty little program for ignoring all the specifications for the web.

Of course it was (and still is) a problem in the scoring program. But there were lots of people (in particular those responsible for the scoring program) who claimed that the problem was in the new version of Bridgemate because the scoring program did not show any such error until there was a new version of Bridgemate.

I am not saying that IE is flawless, but my experience over the years has been that the majority of problems with IE has been faulty third-party add-ons and faulty web pages. However, I recognize the reluctance against MS as another example of the wide reluctance against IBM at the time. From my own experience with IBM over a couple of decades I know that the reluctance against them was mainly based on brainwashing and ignorance of IBM program internals. I do not exclude the possibility that the current reluctance against MS is similar.

[blackshoe]

Heh. I saw a comment a couple weeks ago to the effect that if it had been 1953 instead of 1983, Bill Gates would have been just another suit working for IBM.

[mgoetze]

pran, on 2011-June-16, 15:54, said:

However, I recognize the reluctance against MS as another example of the wide reluctance against IBM at the time.

This is not a case of guessing what the problems are. IE's breakage of standards is well documented and objectively verifiable.

[bluejak]

pran, on 2011-June-14, 08:16, said:

Please let me get this clear:

Are you saying that the "Multiquote" function works as intended when you use IE9 towards a different forum?

No. But since I am transferring the answer to another forum it is easy to do it several times so it is just as good as MultiQuote.

[inquiry]

For what it is worth, I can not reply too, or create a new "message" using the forum and IE9 (I can read them, however), So if someone sends me a message i have to reply to, I have to load firefox or chrome to respond. This started with the upgrade to IE9. I also have some space problems in post with IE9 (adding extra lines to a post when I hit "return"-- essentially double spacing for me). The message thing is annoying as I get a lot of messages as an adminstrator here that need to be replied too.

Also, for what is worth, multi-quote does not work for me either with IE9.

[hotShot]

Just a wild guess, but it could be, since many Web-Server generate non-standard HTML/Javascript Code for the Internet Explorer, that IE9 now follows the standard and does not understand the IE6-8 non-standard Code any more. Since the forum software is older than IE9 It might not be aware of that fact that IE9 can understand standard now.

[barmar]

I don't use IE, but in another forum I read where people sometimes have problems with IE9, they often report that changing Compatibility Mode resolves it.