[benlessard]

[/color]comments

---

This one is by far the worst.

1C (strong)--1D (H or pts)
1S (denies 3H 15-20 show at least 3S)- 2C (D weak or H+D GF)
2D (at least 2D denies 6S)--3S (exactly 0544)
???

our keyc are most fit likely first with equal probabilty lenght is HSCD. When we dont have enough space 4D is PES.

So here i think that soff in 4H is possible but keycarding in H is jsut too unlikely.So the best should be

4C= RKC C
4D RKC D
4H to play
4S 18-20 5233 with nothing wasted in S


However ive stuck to our default agreements, 4D is PES since we dont have 3 keycards bid available taht dont interfere with our signoffs but it was super dumb of me to pass 4S since i know partner doesnt have 6S (i jsut have to bid 5Nt pick a slam).

I would really like to have good PES, RKC & exclusion agreements when we finish describing our shape too high. Any ideas any links ?

[wclass___]

I find 3♠ to be too high for effective relays.

If you can get shape revealed till 3♦ then relays are worth it.

Normally you will be able to do this only with strong club 1♦ openings.

a) Play system that is based on other methods.
b) Separate hands: ones you are willing to relay and others.

[benlessard]

Trust me if you manage to realy and show all (5440) at 3S you will win bunch of imps, these hand are impossible to bid in standard usually.

[Flameous]

What are your relay breaks after 2♣? It seems to me that AKxx support should be able to show that most of the time, even if partner can be weak.

It seems you could do some interesting optimization with all those negative inferences with still keeping essentially the same basic structure. Like here playing in 4♠ is totally impossible, so 4♦+4♠ c/should be KC for ♦. If you consider that too high, then only solution seems to be making some case by case rules like here that you can't RKC in ♥s.

Btw, 5233 18-20 with nothing wasted in spades comes up practically never, I wouldn't dedicate a bid for that.

[benlessard]

Our realy break are intuitive according to the sequence. Here since 2C is GF H+D most of the times or 0-5 with 5D) you want to bid 2D as often as possible even with good support. Opener options are something like

2H= 5215 or 4216 (15-18) hand that you dont want to risk playing 2D.
2S = 6S 15-16
2NT = 5S-6C max
3C= 5S-6C min
3D= 20 pts super accept in D.

Agree about the strong 5233, but exclusion is not going to be very frequent either.

[wclass___]

benlessard, on 2012-March-03, 06:25, said:

Trust me.

I don't trust anyone, let alone someone who uses exact shape shape then RKCB and thinks that it huge IMP winner.

[Zelandakh]

If the last relay response was 3♥ or lower I play
4♣ = puppet to 4♦, then 4♥/♠/NT as RKCB for ♦/♥/♠ respectively
and 4♦ = RKCB for clubs
with the next step as a relay continuation.

If the last relay response was 3♠ or 3NT I play
4♦ = marionette to 4♥, then 4♠/NT/5♣ as RKCB for ♦/♥/♠ respectively
and 4♥ = RKCB for clubs
with 4♣ as a relay continuation.

If the last relay response was 4♣ or higher then RKCB relay breaks are off.

Obviously you can improve on this if your auction has excluded certain suits but keeping things consistent across practically all auctions has big advantages in avoiding incidents such as in the OP.

[Valardent]

Zelandakh, on 2012-March-05, 02:29, said:

If the last relay response was 3♥ or lower I play
4♣ = puppet to 4♦, then 4♥/♠/NT as RKCB for ♦/♥/♠ respectively
and 4♦ = RKCB for clubs
with the next step as a relay continuation.

If the last relay response was 3♠ or 3NT I play
4♦ = marionette to 4♥, then 4♠/NT/5♣ as RKCB for ♦/♥/♠ respectively
and 4♥ = RKCB for clubs
with 4♣ as a relay continuation.

Just out of curiosity Zel, what do u gain by playing this way instead of playing (for example If the last relay response was 3♠ or 3NT) :

4♦ = marionette to 4♥, then pass,4♠/(NT)/5♣/5♦ sign off

4♥/4♠/NT/5♣ as RKCB for ♣/♦/♥/♠

On a space consuming base, it's the same, no?

[Zelandakh]

Valardent, on 2012-March-05, 02:46, said:

Just out of curiosity Zel, what do u gain by playing this way instead of playing (for example If the last relay response was 3♠ or 3NT) :

4♦ = marionette to 4♥, then pass,4♠/(NT)/5♣/5♦ sign off

4♥/4♠/NT/5♣ as RKCB for ♣/♦/♥/♠

On a space consuming base, it's the same, no?

Yes, using 4♦ as an end signal is also possible. The reason I do not use this is that I like to keep things as consistent as possible across as many auctions as possible. On most autions the 4♦ end signal method is inferior since it always gives the opponents a free lead-directing double and wrong-sides heart contracts. Therefore I prefer direct jumps to game to be natural. Over 3♠ or 3NT there is not enough spade to avoid wrong-siding hearts but it fits with the rest of the system better to use the same method.