[inquiry]

We had lost the lead on board 7, on which 2NT is the limit of the hand. At my table, JEC stopped in 2NT, at the other table, mbodell and javabean pushed on to 3NT. Unlucky. On board 9, luck had nothing to do with it.. here is the hand.

I wasn't too happy with opening 1NT, but I did. JEC's double was takeout penalty. Barry and I have not discussed our continuations over this double, but the double of 2♥ was "takeout".

So the question I had was should I try for 6 tricks in 2@hx or 9 tricks in 3♦. As you can see I "chickened" out and took out the takeout double. Partner's heart TEN was huge for the defense, and useless on offense. The contract was 1nt by east at the other table, which somehow managed 7 tricks (off the top of my head, looks like might should lose 4♠, 1♣, 2♥). Anyway, this was minus 200 at our table, and minus 80 at the other for 7 imps loss. I could have won us some imps if I had passed 2♥x.

Questions: Anyone not open 1NT (playing 15-17), and how chicken was I to pull 2♥x?

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This post has been edited by inquiry: 2012-May-20, 09:07
Reason for edit: fix typo in description... entered these too late at night :)

[Mbodell]

Yeah, it was clearly misdefense at our table. The auction was 1NT E passed out. Our double would be quite penalty and it would have been left in (only very distributional nothing hands take out). The play was:

T1: ♠K 6 T 3
T2: ♠4 J 5 2
T3: ♣6 3 K 5
T4: ♦A 3 4 8
T5: ♣4 8 J 2
T6: ♦9 2 Q 5
T7: ♦7 6 T ♥4
T8: ♦K ♥4 ♦J
claim +90

We play upside down attitude and standard count. On trick 3 I should probably play the ♣T or 9 to help partner with the count better, rather than the 3, but I had some worries that this might cost a trick if he could then finesse me, but I can't construct how that would be true. That would have helped partner win the ♣A on one of the first two rounds of clubs, and then we should set them as well so it should only cost 3 IMPs not 7.

I might well sit for 2♥X at matchpoints, I think there is no way I can at IMPs.


Edited to say UDA STDC instead of the reverse.

This post has been edited by Mbodell: 2012-May-23, 01:58

[kgr]

inquiry, on 2012-May-19, 22:21, said:

JEC's double was takeout.

It does not correspond to the alert

inquiry, on 2012-May-19, 22:21, said:

Questions: Anyone not open 1NT (playing 15-17)

I think everybody will. It looks perfect.

inquiry, on 2012-May-19, 22:21, said:

and how chicken was I to pull 2♥x?

I would also not pass, but I pass way too less at IMP's

[gnasher]

I agree with removing the double. Partner is limited by his failure to redouble 1NT, and you don't have many top tricks. Perhaps you should try 2♠ rather than 3♦, though. Curiously, the 3-3 fit seems to make as many tricks as the 4-4.

I'm not sure that you would have beaten 2♥x anyway. After a spade lead, declarer ruffs the spades good, cashes two top hearts and leads a winning spade. To beat it, you have to lead a club, or lead diamonds and then switch to a club.

[gszes]

it is an awfully big position to pass 2h here. You do
have reasonable hearts but not enough tricks especially
opposite a limited p. I would bid 3d. I also would p
2h as west. The x does not rate a large gain and our
side must be able to make 3 of a minor or p pass the x
for it to work. There is nothing even close to suggesting
this might be the case. We are vul if we go down one it
is no better than letting them make 2h let it go.

[barmar]

gnasher, on 2012-May-20, 05:37, said:

I agree with removing the double. Partner is limited by his failure to redouble 1NT

Is redouble to play? I didn't think so, I thought it starts a scramble.

[gnasher]

barmar, on 2012-May-20, 14:58, said:

Is redouble to play? I didn't think so, I thought it starts a scramble.

It's whatever you agree to play it as, but without discussion I would assume that it's for blood. That's certainly the default in England, but maybe it's different elsewhere in the world.

It's a good idea to discuss it, anyway - getting the meaning of a redouble wrong can be very expensive.

[barmar]

In the US, I think the default is that it starts a scramble. I think that goes with playing systems on over the double, since it's the only run out to 2 of a minor. If I want to play 1NTX I can simply pass. Sure, it would be nice to be able to play redoubled when it's right, but which is more likely: a hand that wants to escape to 2m, or a hand that is sure we're making 1NT?

[Mbodell]

barmar, on 2012-May-20, 14:58, said:

Is redouble to play? I didn't think so, I thought it starts a scramble.

I think it should be to play by an UPH. It is certainly more important the weaker your NT opener is, as the opponents will tend to X with weaker hands.

[barmar]

We're playing strong NT, so 1NT (X) shows at least 30 HCP, and probably more, in those two hands (I suppose he could have a weaker hand with a long, solid suit, but in that case responder will probably be able to transfer into another suit) . How much is left for responder? What kind of hand should responder have to redouble to play?

[gnasher]

barmar, on 2012-May-20, 15:48, said:

What kind of hand should responder have to redouble to play?

A hand like the West hand, or perhaps a point stronger.

If you can't redouble with this type of hand, and 4th hand runs, you may not be able to catch them. And of course a game bonus in 1NT can come in handy.

[y66]

In BWS2001 the default is: redoubles are to play.

[inquiry]

undiscussed, playing strong notrump, I would have taken redouble to play. Playing weak notrump, I would take it as sos (again, undiscussed).

[MrAce]

I dont know which is standart about redouble, scramble or blood thirst.

All i know is, if i didnt discuss it, i would never have the balls to sit on it vulnerable by 1 NT opener. If pd thinks it is s.o.s then i am dead in 1 NT xx, if pd was in same page with me and think it was for blood, my loss would be nowhere close to opposite, if any. After all i may end up playing a vulnerable game vs defending when they are white, or a partscore making +110 instead of + 300...big deal.

[han]

We have a balanced 15-17 hand. Why on earth would we not open 1NT?

I would sit for the double of 2H. To me that's what doubling 2H is about, hoping that partner can pass. QJxx of hearts behind the heart bidder seems like an extremely defensive holding.

If partner didn't want to play 2HX he could have bid 2S or 2NT.