[Phil]

Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss.

---

This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close.

A few notes:

1. 1♠ is unbalanced
2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz
3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue

Some side questions:

1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N?

2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump?

3. Any comments on 4♣?

[wank]

i would go for 3h being a Gf with hot trumps. I never want to learn kickback, so I'm not au fait with its use, but making a second effort (after 4♣) on the west hand, whatever it means, is wrong.

[rduran1216]

Phil, on 2012-July-19, 10:37, said:

Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss.

---

This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close.

A few notes:

1. 1♠ is unbalanced
2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz
3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue

Some side questions:

1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N?

2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump?

3. Any comments on 4♣?

I think everything is fine up until 4H. This has to be minimalish with solid hearts, it should end the auction

[kwic]

wank, on 2012-July-19, 10:51, said:

but making a second effort (after 4♣) on the west hand, whatever it means, is wrong.

+1

[Flem72]

Phil, on 2012-July-19, 10:37, said:

Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss.

---

This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close.

A few notes:

1. 1♠ is unbalanced
2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz
3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue

Some side questions:

1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N?

2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump?

3. Any comments on 4♣?

In all of the versions of XYZ I know, 3H here is Very Good Suit, SI, whether O's rebid is 1suit or 1NT. 2D then jump in H seems to describe this one better, but what if O held stronger Dand C and weaker S? Another possibility is the variant that would go

1D-1H
1S-2C*
2D**-3S***

* = puppet to 2D, usually inv values
** = puppeting
***= self splinter with Very Good Suit.

Then if O's hand is stronger D and C and weaker S, you've taken care of that possibility.

[Cyberyeti]

Don't play XYZ, I presume you play WJS, we would bid this via a "S"JS auction.

1♦-2♥
2N (max 1 heart)-3♦
3N (strong suggestion of indifferent 4144 with blacks stopped and not great diamonds)

In your auction, I suspect 4♣ was bid assuming 3♥ showed a bigger hand.

[neilkaz]

rduran1216, on 2012-July-19, 10:57, said:

I think everything is fine up until 4H. This has to be minimalish with solid hearts, it should end the auction

I agree and would think that it should also be noted by west that east bypassed the chance to cue or bid 4♦ as LTTC if playing that. I'd pass 4♥.

[Phil]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-July-19, 13:26, said:

Don't play XYZ, I presume you play WJS, we would bid this via a "S"JS auction.

1♦-2♥
2N (max 1 heart)-3♦
3N (strong suggestion of indifferent 4144 with blacks stopped and not great diamonds)

In your auction, I suspect 4♣ was bid assuming 3♥ showed a bigger hand.

We do not play WJS, but 2♥ is something unrelated to the problem.

[mike777]

Phil, on 2012-July-19, 10:37, said:

Mark and I were generally on the same page during the GNT's. Here's a hand that cost in our loss.

---

This is a week old, and I might have the black suits in West a little off, but this pretty close.

A few notes:

1. 1♠ is unbalanced
2. 3♥ is forcing, per xyz
3. We play kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue

Some side questions:

1. Does 3♥ 'set trump' in an xyz auction? Does it matter if the rebid is 1 of a suit or 1N?

2. How strong is 3♥? Is it simply GF and shows great trump? Or is it a serious try but could have marginal trump?

3. Any comments on 4♣?

prefer 2d here over 1s not 3h but close. then:

1d=1h
1s=2d(art gF)
3c=3d(gf but a bit weaker than a direct 3d over 1s. which would be a clear strong slam try)
3s=4d
4h(rkc in d)=4nt(1-4)
5d

I play 3h as a strong slam try. West has extras so hard to stay out of slam after that.

[the hog]

West 100%. Why did west move over the 4H sign-off?

[aguahombre]

Agree with all of those above who say 4H should have ended the auction, therefore all the blame to West --- unless the 3H bid itself already guaranteed more than East had. All I know from the OP is that it is forcing.

However, I don't understand "We play Kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue." If you play Kickback, 4♠ is Kickback. Do you mean West's 4NT was a spade cue? I also don't understand the jump to 6H over the alleged spade cue. It seems East has already described the great hearts and nothing else to say.

[Phil]

aguahombre, on 2012-July-19, 22:21, said:

However, I don't understand "We play Kickback, so 4♠ is supposed to be a cue." If you play Kickback, 4♠ is Kickback. Do you mean West's 4NT was a spade cue? I also don't understand the jump to 6H over the alleged spade cue. It seems East has already described the great hearts and nothing else to say.

Yes that's my point, which should help explain the jump to 6♥ instead of responding to RKC.

East thought West needed a club card for slam, since he didn't RKC.

[gnasher]

Phil, on 2012-July-20, 01:46, said:

East thought West needed a club card for slam, since he didn't RKC.

But East didn't have a club card, so why did he bid slam?

[Phil]

gnasher, on 2012-July-20, 02:28, said:

But East didn't have a club card, so why did he bid slam?

He didn't have a club card - but he had a club control. How would West bid with AKQx xx AKxxx xx?

BTW, East was 2-1 in the blacks, not 1-2. Fixed.

[gnasher]

Phil, on 2012-July-20, 10:04, said:

BTW, East was 2-1 in the blacks, not 1-2. Fixed.

That may just be "by the way" to you, but to me it's a rather significant change.

[mike777]

as Phil asked I think what 3h rather than going thru 2d is a rather open question in XYZ

I prefer jumps to 3 level to, in general, be stronger than going through 2d.

west has a problem since slam can be cold opp a minimum but good slam try 3h bid....

If 3h is just a minimum 6 card/gf heart bid that is another issue.

As I said in my post I thought this hand was close but was just short.

[yin970902]

IMO，bid 3♥ is based on O's 1♦,so ♦Queen is value added,
and has a solid ♥suit.
When O's 4♣ cuebid,R's 4♥ ranther than 4♦ is alarted,so stop.

[jdeegan]

I think W just got a little over-excited with his hand. The 4♣ cue bid should, imo., show the ace because it is the first cue bid by a strong hand is and not in any of pard's suits. Over 4♥, W should reflect that his hand keeps getting worse and worse as the auction progresses. It is now down to 15 HCP and poor trump support. There is, imo., no presumption that pard's ♥ are solid, just long and playable opposite a singleton or void. 4♥ can be passed, its time to give up.

[FrancesHinden]

I think it depends partly on your agreement about the meaning of 3H.

I don't play xyz, but I do play a jump to 3H as nat FG with good trumps and go via 2C with other hands. However, I also play that the jump to 3H promises basically strong jump shift strength and sets trumps, so I would bid 3S (cue) on the West hand. When East bids 4H over that, West is confused (where are all of East's high cards?) but will pass as they are obviously off the ace of clubs and the king of diamonds.

So partly where your auction went wrong is West's inability to cue 3S over 3H. If you play Italian cue bidding (so East could cue 4C over that) then either East shouldn't do so, or your 3H bid is weaker and West should pass 4H.

[Phil]

gnasher, on 2012-July-20, 10:43, said:

That may just be "by the way" to you, but to me it's a rather significant change.

I know. I didn't mean to sound glib about it. Sorry.