Final Pass ACBL
#21
Posted 2012-September-05, 23:03
Until they get around to creating a Red, White, and Blue book ---I guess we will scrounge for compilations of regs wherever we can find them.
#22
Posted 2012-September-06, 03:03
LH2650, on 2012-September-05, 18:54, said:
When I used the word "accessible", I was thinking of a procedure like:
- Go to the ACBL website
- Click "Charts, Rules and Regulations"
- Click "Bidding Box Regulations"
If I did that, I would assume that I had found the complete set of bidding-box regulations. I'm sure that most ACBL members think the same way.
Also, has the ACBL ever stated that the tech files are regulations?
#23
Posted 2012-September-06, 07:15
gnasher, on 2012-September-06, 03:03, said:
- Go to the ACBL website
- Click "Charts, Rules and Regulations"
- Click "Bidding Box Regulations"
You mean something like this?
#24
Posted 2012-September-06, 08:08
aguahombre, on 2012-September-06, 07:15, said:
No, not at all like that. If I were looking for ACBL regulations, I would look on the ACBL website. I'd also expect to see the word "regulations" somewhere on the page.
#26
Posted 2012-September-06, 08:30
#27
Posted 2012-September-06, 08:52
gnasher, on 2012-September-06, 08:08, said:
O.K. It is "Provided by courtesy of the ACBL", but not on its official website. I had better not acknowledge it as a resourse.
#28
Posted 2012-September-06, 09:22
barmar, on 2012-September-06, 08:30, said:
I think you are mistaken.
Quote
That the ACBL doesn't enforce this provision doesn't negate the fact that it exists.
Note: That section of the Handbook goes on under "Systems and Conventions" to say
Quote
When masterpoints are awarded for overall positions in several locations, such as unit-wide games, STaCs, etc., all conventions in the ACBL General Convention Chart must be allowed unless the conditions of contest specify otherwise. Use of the Alert procedure is mandatory, and the rules that govern skip bid announcements are applicable.
Occasionally special games, such as the GNT event, may be held in clubs. In such a case the club manager must check the conditions of contest to be sure to conduct the game in conformity with the rules.
ACBL recommends that clubs which are inclined to permit patrons to test new or little known conventions or systems restrict such testing to one of several scheduled game sessions. If experience indicates that the majority of the club players welcome this policy, it can be extended easily to other sessions. In any case, players must have the approval of the director before using any convention not specifically authorized.
ACBL recommends that each club post a list of approved conventions in a conspicuous place on its premises.
I've never seen a club post a list of approved conventions. Also, the "optional (and strongly encouraged)" bit seems to directly contradict the statement in my first quote. It seems the left hand and the right hand at HQ need to talk more to each other.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#29
Posted 2012-September-06, 10:22
The "optional (and strongly encouraged)" part doesn't necessarily contradict the first quote - the GCC, Alert procedure, skip bid... regulations are mandatory for tournaments (there's a set of regulations for that) and optional (and strongly encouraged) for sanctioned club games.
The only time I believe, with all the weird stuff I used to do, that I wasn't in *full compliance* with the ACBL sanction, was when I ran the university game that was technically Superchart, but if nobody complained (and the crazy system people were willing to play a normal system against the real newbies)...
#30
Posted 2012-September-06, 10:42
mycroft, on 2012-September-06, 10:22, said:
Is it common for club games in the ACBL to use the GCC? This would seem to totally stifle innovation, which in my experience usually takes place at the club level.
#31
Posted 2012-September-06, 15:28
#32
Posted 2012-September-06, 15:41
Vampyr, on 2012-September-06, 10:42, said:
It doesn't seem much different from your "levels" distinctions. GCC is the norm for Club-level. Club directors/managers have considerable leeway, and it is much more common for clubs to allow certain mid-chart stuff (cleared through them in advance) than it is for them to apply further restrictions. The latter could get them in trouble with the ACBL.
#33
Posted 2012-September-06, 16:13
aguahombre, on 2012-September-06, 15:41, said:
Yes, Except that the GCC is way more restrictive than the levels which are commonly in use at clubs in England. We have Level 2, 3, 4 and 5 (and 4 and 5 are basically identical). Virtually nothing is run at level 2, clubs are all at least level 3 and many are run at level 4. Level 3 includes multi 2D (which I think is midchart in the US?). Level 4 includes several brown-sticker 2s and basically every non-HUM system with natural major suit openings. They certainly allow us to open 1NT with a singleton (-;
#34
Posted 2012-September-06, 17:45
mycroft, on 2012-September-06, 10:22, said:
I think it does contradict it - "full compliance" to me means just that. Unless the regulation itself (I'm thinking of alert and bidbox regs here) specifically gives clubs the right to not use them or modify them. I don't think either does, but I haven't looked lately.
mycroft, on 2012-September-06, 10:22, said:
This one I don't understand. The convention regulation, in the introduction to the GCC part of it, specifically gives clubs full authority to regulate conventions in their games. So if your club wants to allow the Superchart, go for it. As for the about playing against newbies, well, a club can make a regulation that the Superchart isn't allowed against newbies - that's implicit in "full authority to regulate conventions", but it has to be explicit and published in advance - and it probably has to define "newbie".
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#35
Posted 2012-September-06, 17:50
blackshoe, on 2012-September-06, 17:45, said:
So, a pair that plays Superchart conventions in most rounds would have to carry an alternate convention card to use against certain opponents? That doesn't sound right.
#36
Posted 2012-September-06, 17:54
Bbradley62, on 2012-September-06, 17:50, said:
<shrug> It may not sound right, but it's a logical conclusion of two regulations, one of which says you have to have two substantially completed identical system cards describing the methods you are using and the other of which says you can play Superchart methods, but not against newbies.
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#37
Posted 2012-September-07, 02:12
blackshoe, on 2012-September-06, 17:45, said:
It would be fairer and less divisive to say that you can only play Superchart methods if the opponents explicitly agree, with a presumption that they don't.
#38
Posted 2012-September-07, 02:17
mjj29, on 2012-September-06, 16:13, said:
Technically/theoretically the difference between 4 and 5 is enormous, much bigger than that between 3 and 4 or 2 and 3. The reason it doesn't appear to make a big difference in practice is that virtually no-one plays any of the things that are allowed at level 5 and not at level 4.
#39
Posted 2012-September-07, 09:43
Quote
2. Players must have the approval of the club director before using any convention not specifically
authorized. (It is suggested that each club post a list of approved conventions in a conspicuous
place on its premises.)
3. The conventions allowed in a game may vary in accordance with the masterpoint level of the
contestants. The basis for the determinations at each club (or each session of a club) should be
what is most desirable for the players at that game.
4. What conventions a club allows or does not allow has no effect on the club’s rating.
5. Clubs inclined to permit patrons to test new or little-known conventions or systems are advised to
restrict such testing to one of several scheduled sessions. If experience indicates the majority of
the club players welcome this policy, it can easily be extended to other sessions.
#40
Posted 2012-September-07, 09:47
blackshoe, on 2012-September-06, 17:45, said:
mycroft, on 2012-September-06, 10:22, said:
Quote
And then there was the (in)famous "4♣: request to LHO of a date after the game" convention. I don't *think* that one's allowed on any of the regular charts (and I'm almost certain it was never used, just put on the card).
Bbradley62, on 2012-September-06, 17:50, said: