[ggwhiz]

I think it could easily go either way but how do you feel about p - 1♥ on your left and 3 (or 4) ♠ by partner? Nobody can play in a minor after that.

[ArtK78]

mgoetze, on 2013-January-22, 04:56, said:

I would use 4NT if I had it available as both minors. You should switch, specific aces is stupid.

broze, on 2013-January-22, 14:00, said:

One of my greatest peeves is people throwing around black or white unsupported statements like this in internet fora (I know - I am riled a lot). Several good players are advocates of the method - sure, I can see problems with it, infrequency being well up there, but I'd hardly call it stupid.

Given the frequency of a 4NT opening playing either of these methods, I really doubt that it is going to make a significant difference in your overall game if you decide to play one of these methods or something else. In his earliest Romex books, Rosenkranz advocated opening 3NT on a 3 loser minor suited hand and 4NT on a two loser minor suited hand. Both were specifically defined as 1-1-(5/6) - 11 cards in the minors divided 6/5 or 5/6, no voids. Whatever you may think about the utility of these opening bids, at least they are well defined. Partner, looking at major suit aces and/or minor suit honors, knows exactly how high to bid. He might be one card off in the degree of the minor suit fit.

The hand in the OP is a 4 loser minor suited hand.

I would guess that using the 4NT opening as a specific ace asking bid would solve a problem on the very rare hand on which it is appropriate. On the other hand, opening 4NT on a hand like the one in the OP may be good or bad, depending on the lay of the cards. So my vote goes with the specific ace asking 4NT opening. Another reason for choosing the specific ace asking bid is that there may not be another way of getting the information needed on the rare hand on which specific ace asking is appropriate. In the case of an extreme minor suited hand, there are other ways to get that message across. They may not be as quick or effective as a 4NT opening, but they work.

That doesn't mean that I am going to play my 4NT openings as a specific ace asking bid. And, believe me, I am not going to lose any sleep over this decision.

I heard a story once about a pro-client bridge partnership. On arriving at the hotel prior to game time, the client asked the pro how he would play a 5NT opening bid. I am sure the partnership had nowhere to go but up after that start.

[mgoetze]

broze, on 2013-January-22, 14:00, said:

One of my greatest peeves is people throwing around black or white unsupported statements like this in internet fora (I know - I am riled a lot).

Sorry, the religion thread at the Water Cooler got closed recently so I needed a new outlet to proclaim my beliefs.

[lycier]

May I ask a question? What is values for this hand? game force? weak? preemptive values at 5 of level?
Is that the only sure thing people do bid up to game at 5 of level?

[mgoetze]

lycier, on 2013-January-23, 03:21, said:

May I ask a question? What is values for this hand? game force? weak? preemptive values at 5 of level?
Is that the only sure thing people do bid up to game at 5 of level?

You may ask but I don't really understand the question. We have a chance at making 5♦ opposite as little as xxxx xxxx xxx Ax. If partner has that hand and 5♦ isn't making, then 5♠ is and 6♠ might well be. Think of other possible hands for partner and you will see, they all point to bidding to a high level, ideally right away.

[Codo]

pigpenz, on 2013-January-22, 12:54, said:

I have played alot of wild systems like EHAA ...
but when I open I like to promise 2 defensive tricks called quick tricks incase partner doubles

You played EHAA with promising 2 defensive tricks? Wow, now this sounds really adventurous...
I guess you are a freeclimber and trainsurfer in your RL too?

[CamHenry]

OK, so there's no clear conclusion here either. We decided that coming in second time round was better, or at least it was what we'd do, but that we'd forgive a 1♦ opening. 2♦ just seemed wrong.

[broze]

mgoetze, on 2013-January-22, 15:05, said:

Sorry, the religion thread at the Water Cooler got closed recently so I needed a new outlet to proclaim my beliefs.

Heh - didn't realise that had closed. Didn't have the energy to trawl all the way to the end. What I will say for 4NT = minors is that it is about a thousand times better than 2NT = 5-5 minors which I toyed with for a while.

[MrAce]

I probably would open this 5♦

Too bad if we have a good ♣ fit and no ♦ fit. But in return opening 5♦ gains a lot in different ways. I will take it.

[Trinidad]

helene_t, on 2013-January-22, 09:47, said:

Thinking about it, I kinda like a 5♦ opening.

+1

1st alternative: pass
2nd alternative (but only at MPs): 4♦ (intending to rebid 5♣)

Rik