[humilities]

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If you cue bid is it because you don't want to miss slam, or because jumping to 4S requires 6?

Thanks.

[Codo]

I would just bid game. If partner does not hold 3+ spades, he will hold a strong hand and will know now, what to do.

[eagles123]

I always thought a raise to game in this situation was pre-emptive rather than showing a good hand?

[Antrax]

It's technically not a "raise" to game. However, I would cue-bid, and I am expecting to hear other good players because I'd be surprised if 4♠ is really the right bid.

[mcphee]

Although I could cue bid before bidding game I would not as this is close to minimum for that choice. If partner does not have 3S we will have a chat. My reasons for 4S is the Kx D holds more value when played from my side, even though I do not feel it is a major drawback if the hand was played in S from partners side.

[Cyberyeti]

Codo, on 2013-February-26, 09:17, said:

I would just bid game. If partner does not hold 3+ spades, he will hold a strong hand and will know now, what to do.

No he won't. If he has for example a single suited hand with clubs too good for an overcall, you have a great hand for him, what's he supposed to do with K, Axx, Axx, AKxxxx ? I would overcall 2♣ but for many people it's too good. If he bids over 4♠ you'll have QJ109xxx, Jx, xxx, J which is closer to what I'd bid 4♠ on.

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I always thought a raise to game in this situation was pre-emptive rather than showing a good hand?

yes it is in my book

[Zelandakh]

eagles123, on 2013-February-27, 07:50, said:

I always thought a raise to game in this situation was pre-emptive rather than showing a good hand?

That is the method I recommend since it allows for better differentiation between hand types.

[Codo]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-February-27, 08:09, said:

No he won't. If he has for example a single suited hand with clubs too good for an overcall, you have a great hand for him, what's he supposed to do with K, Axx, Axx, AKxxxx ? I would overcall 2♣ but for many people it's too good. If he bids over 4♠ you'll have QJ109xxx, Jx, xxx, J which is closer to what I'd bid 4♠ on.

Here in Germany, we follow an approach similar to FES in which a jump to 4 of a major shows 11+F and 5+ cards. (A link in German http://www.bridge-ve...e/web/news/2592 )
I see no reason to let beginners play more complicate conventional bids.
The cuebid is already overloaded with strong minor suit hands, strong hands with no stopper, both majors 4/4 and one major with 11+ , so I do not see any reason to overload this bid with another handtype.

Again, we talk about novice and beginner bridge, not about what is best for you or other experts. If this question had been asked in the advanced or expert corner, I had given another answer...

And as we promised values with 4 ♠, it is much easier to go with a slamseeking onesuiter then it is with our weak approach. Partner can simply bid his suit to show the hand. Quite easy.

[Zelandakh]

Codo, on 2013-February-27, 09:00, said:

The cuebid is already overloaded with strong minor suit hands, strong hands with no stopper, both majors 4/4 and one major with 11+ , so I do not see any reason to overload this bid with another handtype.

You may play (1♥) - X - (P) - 2♥ this way Roland, but I do not suggest doing so (especially the both majors type!). My recommendation for N/B players is to play this as an artificial game force, which is no more complicated than a 2♣ opening (or 2♦ in Germany). To my mind, this is in the same league as teaching beginners the (quite frankly, awful) method of raising a 1M opening to 4M to show a good hand. Even some of the strongest players round here are playing this and think it is completely standard.

[Codo]

Sorry Zel, of course the cuebid in this given scenario is not with both majors, that was meant - but not written- as over the minors only- just a general remark.

[lexlogan]

humilities, on 2013-February-26, 07:55, said:

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If you cue bid is it because you don't want to miss slam, or because jumping to 4S requires 6?

Both, and also because your jump may not prevent the enemy from bidding. Cue-bid to show "this is our hand". Jump to show "I want to play in spades." The cue-bid announces that we will not allow the enemy to play the hand undoubled; the jump does not carry that meaning. This is the same sort of distinction Standard American methods have always made between a distributional game raise (1♠-4♠) and a strength-showing raise (1♠-2NT Jacoby or equivalent.)

[amre_man]

Seems to me a response of 2♠shows exta points and length in suit. By keeping the bidding low you provide opportunity for partner to bid his strongest suit. And such a bid does not eliminate you playing in ♠ game.

[Cyberyeti]

amre_man, on 2013-February-27, 16:38, said:

Seems to me a response of 2♠shows exta points and length in suit. By keeping the bidding low you provide opportunity for partner to bid his strongest suit. And such a bid does not eliminate you playing in ♠ game.

2♠ is non forcing, partner will pass with say KJxx, x, QJxx, KJxx (a pretty minimal ToX) where 4♠ is cold.

2♠ is what I bid without the K♦.

[PhilKing]

There's no rush - 2♥ for now. In order for partner to judge accurately, a jump to 4♠ should show a spade more and a high card fewer.