[eagles123]

(matchpoints we're white they're red)

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Me and P weren't sure if this was showing a genuinely good hand or pre-emptive

thanks,

Eagles

[Endymion77]

It means that South expects to make game in spades. No reason to preempt as opps aren't likely to get to a making game with West passing 1♠.

[blackshoe]

"Unassuming cue bid" is inadequate disclosure. Can you elaborate?

[billw55]

blackshoe, on 2013-October-07, 13:08, said:

"Unassuming cue bid" is inadequate disclosure. Can you elaborate?

Dang, you beat me to it.

But regardless, 4♠ seems to be bid to make.

[ArtK78]

4♠ means whatever South wants it to mean. He has information - RHO opened the bidding 1♣ and, after his 1♠ overcall and partner's "unassuming cuebid", RHO bid 2♥. Now, it would seem that 4♠ would be bid here with the expectation of making 10 tricks with spades as trump. But if the spade bidder had a weak hand with long spades (which he did not preempt with on the first round) and he decided that, based on the auction, 4♠ was the right tactical bid, then so be it.

Can I come up with a hand where it is "right" to bid 4♠ even though you don't think it will make? Not offhand. How would I describe the 4♠ bid at the table if asked? Probably that the bidder expected to make 4♠. But I am just pointing out that it is remotely possible that he doesn't expect to make 4♠ but still thinks that it is the right call to make.

BTW, the dictionary definition of "unassuming" is "modest: acting in a way that does not assume superiority." So partner's cue bid is a modest bid, not looking to toot his own horn, just playing along with partner, seeing what he wants to do. Really, that is a fun name for a bridge call, but most unlike most bridge players.

[neilkaz]

Endymion77, on 2013-October-07, 11:57, said:

It means that South expects to make game in spades. No reason to preempt as opps aren't likely to get to a making game with West passing 1♠.

Exactly this.

[Cyberyeti]

eagles123, on 2013-October-07, 11:53, said:

Me and P weren't sure if this was showing a genuinely good hand or pre-emptive

thanks,

Eagles

It could be either, he expects to make 4♠, if the question you're really asking is "if I have a good hand for the UCB, how much more do I need to be bidding on", that's another matter.

[billw55]

I also observe that east has bid fairly strongly. This may factor in my conclusions about the other bids.

[Zelandakh]

I think this question is more complicated than has been suggested to this point. With an N/B player, or even an intermediate for that matter, the 4♠ bid is going to say nothing more than others have put forward - a hand that wants to play game. But think about this for a moment. If we have a hand that wants to play game based on power, do we really want to waste more than 2 levels of bidding opposite a strong and unlimited partner? No, that makes little sense. Instead, with such a hand we should make a forcing bid and give partner the chance to show extras. So with a better or regular partner, that leaves only two possibilities for 4♠ - either extra distribution or a good hand with poor controls. And perhaps we could find some other bid for the latter...and then 4♠ can be played as extra distribution. That is not exactly preemptive but does help partner in making an informed decision if they do happen to have extras. But as this is N/B, you basically have to guess since most are going to make the same bid with both extra distribution and extra strength and not think about any of the possibilities in-between.

[nige1]

eagles123, on 2013-October-07, 11:53, said:

(matchpoints we're white they're red)
Me and P weren't sure if this was showing a genuinely good hand or pre-emptive

---

Descriptive: Long good ♠ with not much else. No void (change of suit should be forcing so a jump should probably be an auto-splinter). For instance
♠ K Q J x x x x ♥ K x ♦ K x ♣ x x

[Wackojack]

South's bid of 4♠ is based on 1. What he thinks his partner holds and 2. What he thinks he can make. The cue bid of 2♣ generally means that he has 3 card spade support and about 10+ HCP. It could be 4 card support if the partnership does not have a specific bid to show this. Normally the 4♠ bid will be based on at least a 6 card suit, but particularly at MP pairs it could be good tactics to do this on a 5 card suit and not give away information about the hand to help the defence.

[eagles123]

thanks everyone very helpful

[billw55]

Agree with Wackojack. Undiscussed, I would definitely expect this cuebid to promise real spade support, Hxx at least. If "unassuming" means something different .. well ok, but we still don't know what it is.

[monikrazy]

Generally I would expect 2♣ to show 11+ points, and 3+ cards support in spades. 4♠ is a sign-off.

[Vampyr]

monikrazy, on 2013-October-08, 07:15, said:

Generally I would expect 2♣ to show 11+ points, and 3+ cards support in spades.

In most cases, yes. But if N/S play a change of suit after an overcall as NF, then the cuebid is the only forcing bid, and S could have a game-going hand without support.