[Mbodell]

Playing a 64-board IMP match (district GNT A teams) the following hand occurs against averagish, definitely non-expert, flight A opponents (they play 4th best and U/D but may not be honest against slam). Your system is 2/1 with a weak nt and semi-forcing nt. South is a little lighter than should be by agreement, but was willing to open favorable with the ability to pass a semi-nt or show shape ok over 1♠ (2♠ by N would have been a 3 card limit raise so no strong jump available).

---

Lead is ♠8,

T1. ♠8, 9, 5, 6
T2. ♣A, 2, 9, 3
T3. ♥7, 8, Q, A
T4. ♠T

The choices seem to be:
1. Play East for the ♦K plus long hearts (win spade in hand, cash club K pitching the heart 9, cross to the heart K and run spades and on the last spade you have the spade plus ♦QT on the board and ♦A9 and ♥5 in hand pitching after E).
2. Play West for the ♦K plus long hearts (run the spades on the board and then cross to the ♦A. The board will have ♦Q and ♥K9 when you cash the club K and you can pitch after West).
3. Play East for the ♦K with anyone having the ♦J and long ♥ (this is just like 2 but you lead the ♦Q off the board after the run of the spades and plan to duck if east doesn't cover and if East covers you pitch the diamond T on the club K and your hand has the diamond 9 threat card).

Also comments on the original line (the original plan was hope for stiff A of hearts with E or Ax of hearts with E [ducking a heart at trick 4 after the Q won] or JT with W [covering the second round making the 9 good] or stiff J or stiff T with E [finesse the 9 after losing the Q]).

[JLOGIC]

Seems like just a guess right now, I would run spades in dummy and watch the discards and then try to figure out what to do (assuming I can still make it!). If I had to guess now, I'd say west is more likely to have long hearts since east played the 8 so west probably has the 6. Them playing udca somewhat negates that though since he may just be giving count with J86 or T86.

West should have returned a heart obviously from every holding but that seems like an error no matter what is going on so I won't read too much into it.

[johnu]

If the ♥Q won at trick 3, it seems to me your best percentage is a strip squeeze. Cash ♣K, run spades, and hope the ♥A and ♦K are in the same hand. Throw them in with ♥K at trick 11 if they don't pitch down to singleton ♦K. You may have to guess at the end.

I think line 2 is best. This also works when East guards hearts and has ♦KJ since you have the ♦9 as a threat.

[nige1]

 Mbodell, on 2014-February-16, 15:23, said:

Playing a 64-board IMP match (district GNT A teams) the following hand occurs against averagish, definitely non-expert, flight A opponents (they play 4th best and U/D but may not be honest against slam). Your system is 2/1 with a weak nt and semi-forcing nt. South is a little lighter than should be by agreement, but was willing to open favorable with the ability to pass a semi-nt or show shape ok over 1♠ (2♠ by N would have been a 3 card limit raise so no strong jump available).
Lead is ♠8,
T1. ♠8, 9, 5, 6
T2. ♣A, 2, 9, 3
T3. ♥7, 8, Q, A
T4. ♠T
The choices seem to be:
1. Play East for the ♦K plus long hearts (win spade in hand, cash club K pitching the heart 9, cross to the heart K and run spades and on the last spade you have the spade plus ♦QT on the board and ♦A9 and ♥5 in hand pitching after E).
2. Play West for the ♦K plus long hearts (run the spades on the board and then cross to the ♦A. The board will have ♦Q and ♥K9 when you cash the club K and you can pitch after West).
3. Play East for the ♦K with anyone having the ♦J and long ♥ (this is just like 2 but you lead the ♦Q off the board after the run of the spades and plan to duck if east doesn't cover and if East covers you pitch the diamond T on the club K and your hand has the diamond 9 threat card).
Also comments on the original line (the original plan was hope for stiff A of hearts with E or Ax of hearts with E [ducking a heart at trick 4 after the Q won] or JT with W [covering the second round making the 9 good] or stiff J or stiff T with E [finesse the 9 after losing the Q]).

---

 johnu, on 2014-February-16, 16:01, said:

If the ♥Q won at trick 3, it seems to me your best percentage is a strip squeeze. Cash ♣K, run spades, and hope the ♥A and ♦K are in the same hand. Throw them in with ♥K at trick 11 if they don't pitch down to singleton ♦K. You may have to guess at the end.
I think line 2 is best. This also works when East guards hearts and has ♦KJ since you have the ♦9 as a threat.

Agree with Johnu about line 2 which also works when RHO has long ♥ and ♦KJ.
But disagree about how to continue if ♥Q had won at trick 2. I prefer: ♣K throwing a heart; then exit in ♥. If RHO now leads a ♦, you must decide whether to play RHO for ♦K or to hope that trumps are 2-2.

[PhilKing]

Deleted nonsense.

[nige1]

 JLOGIC, on 2014-February-16, 15:41, said:

West should have returned a heart obviously from every holding but that seems like an error no matter what is going on so I won't read too much into it.

If LHO returns a ♥ and ♥K stands up, then you can cross to ♠J, pitch a ♥ on ♣K, ruff a ♥ high, and claim.

[JLOGIC]

 nige1, on 2014-February-16, 16:08, said:

If LHO returns a ♥ and ♥K stands up, then you can cross to ♠J, pitch a ♥ on ♣K, ruff a ♥ high, and claim.

That's a cool story bro

edit: Ok to be more productive... the contract is 6NT.

[Fluffy]

The most likely scenario is that East has ♦K and heart lenght, because they cannot return a heart when they don't have any.

the ♥8 play is just to ensure you don't run ♥7 when they hold ♥J1086

[Mbodell]

 JLOGIC, on 2014-February-16, 15:41, said:

Seems like just a guess right now, I would run spades in dummy and watch the discards and then try to figure out what to do (assuming I can still make it!). If I had to guess now, I'd say west is more likely to have long hearts since east played the 8 so west probably has the 6. Them playing udca somewhat negates that though since he may just be giving count with J86 or T86.

If you run spades now don't you lose the ability to squeeze East for diamond K and long hearts because of the transportation issues? The only entry to your hand and the club K if you run spades is the diamond A. Are you saying that you think you'd like to gain the insight into the discards and are ok with losing this (it is a guess) or are you saying you can still pick this up some way (in which case could you explain because I can't see it right now)?

 JLOGIC, on 2014-February-16, 15:41, said:

West should have returned a heart obviously from every holding but that seems like an error no matter what is going on so I won't read too much into it.

Yes. Obviously he can't do that if he doesn't have any hearts, but he is a non-expert so the spade lead may well of seen the "safe" thing to do from any holding.

[nige1]

 JLOGIC, on 2014-February-16, 16:24, said:

That's a cool story bro edit: Ok to be more productive... the contract is 6NT.

Aaaah... Right Thank you I flouted David Burn's 3rd (?) law I see my suggested line when ♥Q wins would also result in lots of embarrassing undertricks

[Zelandakh]

 nige1, on 2014-February-16, 17:42, said:

Aaaah... Right Thank you I flouted David Burn's 3rd (?) law I see my suggested line when ♥Q wins would also result in lots of embarrassing undertricks

This is why you get partner to lay dummy out with spades on the right.

On the bidding front, would South have done anything differently with ♠J ♥AQJxx ♦Jxxx ♣KQx? It feels like something of a system hole when you have to bid ♠AKQ9743 the same way as ♠65432!

[JLOGIC]

 Mbodell, on 2014-February-16, 17:30, said:

If you run spades now don't you lose the ability to squeeze East for diamond K and long hearts because of the transportation issues? The only entry to your hand and the club K if you run spades is the diamond A. Are you saying that you think you'd like to gain the insight into the discards and are ok with losing this (it is a guess) or are you saying you can still pick this up some way (in which case could you explain because I can't see it right now)?

Yeah I meant I can still play for #2 or #3 after seeing their discards. Playing for #1 I have to play for #1 with no info. I cannot combine 1/2/3 though, but being able to go for #2 or #3 with more info seems like an edge vs committing to #1 now when I see no reason to think that #1 is better (or worse) right now.

[Mbodell]

At the table result: At the table I didn't think in depth on 3 and didn't realize the long hearts and ♦J could be with either hand so I thought it would just be a transferring the menace sort of thing and thus be worse than 1 and 2. Between 1 and 2 I didn't have much but decided that since LHO can't return a heart when they have only 1, but could if they had more than 1, then it might be slightly more likely for RHO to have the long hearts (and 8 from JT8x following the x from K9x on the board might be a play to prevent a deep finesse with the 7 or something).

In point of fact LHO had 4 hearts, the ♦K (and also the ♣Q). So I choose the wrong opponent to squeeze, and while LHO had to pause to think for a while on the pseudo squeeze he correctly threw the club Q to keep the ♦Kx and set the contract.

[gszes]

Wow I expected to see a lot of votes on this one only one sigh so I cannot claim minority
report status. Lines 2 and 3 seem like complete non starters to me. The play so far seems
to virtually guarantee east has the long hearts since there is no reasonable heart holding
for west to have after winning the A where returning a heart would at worst be making
declarer guess before seeing the whole hand. Lho almost assuredly has no more hearts.

If the defense is that of a novice where the concept of squeeze play (ie rectifying the count)
might be unheard of then another LOP might make sense.

The original idea of leading toward the heart Q, hoping against hope east has the stiff A, is
a good start since you are making a play that will guarantee your contract if those conditions
exist and if the Q loses (and no heart return) you are in great position to execute a squeeze
since the count is rectified. We are in don't ask don't tell territory about what to do if the
heart Q holds the trick:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Lovera]

 Mbodell, on 2014-February-19, 05:06, said:

At the table result: At the table I didn't think in depth on 3 and didn't realize the long hearts and ♦J could be with either hand so I thought it would just be a transferring the menace sort of thing and thus be worse than 1 and 2. Between 1 and 2 I didn't have much but decided that since LHO can't return a heart when they have only 1, but could if they had more than 1, then it might be slightly more likely for RHO to have the long hearts (and 8 from JT8x following the x from K9x on the board might be a play to prevent a deep finesse with the 7 or something).

In point of fact LHO had 4 hearts, the ♦K (and also the ♣Q). So I choose the wrong opponent to squeeze, and while LHO had to pause to think for a while on the pseudo squeeze he correctly threw the club Q to keep the ♦Kx and set the contract.

Interesting hand: the choise seems between Vienna coup for excelence (trasfering control diamond thread playing Queen against King in East for a positional squeeze on West or also automatic having diamond 9) or to isolate Queen (playing little for Ace in South). It seems like a two-way impasse: we have all the tricks in the color but we may yet mistake. Certain the conservative behaviour of West could make thinking he had anything to defend ( the King ) and to orient our choise correctly ( i played for line 3 with a little doubt ) . I have tried to find in books ulterior explanation but i have found only tecnical part ( on transfering manouvre ). It may be usefull to know when to get it or when don't get it. Don' t get me wrong.(Lovera)

[phil_20686]

 Mbodell, on 2014-February-16, 15:23, said:

Playing a 64-board IMP match (district GNT A teams) the following hand occurs against averagish, definitely non-expert, flight A opponents (they play 4th best and U/D but may not be honest against slam). Your system is 2/1 with a weak nt and semi-forcing nt. South is a little lighter than should be by agreement, but was willing to open favorable with the ability to pass a semi-nt or show shape ok over 1♠ (2♠ by N would have been a 3 card limit raise so no strong jump available).

---

Lead is ♠8,

T1. ♠8, 9, 5, 6
T2. ♣A, 2, 9, 3
T3. ♥7, 8, Q, A
T4. ♠T

The choices seem to be:
1. Play East for the ♦K plus long hearts (win spade in hand, cash club K pitching the heart 9, cross to the heart K and run spades and on the last spade you have the spade plus ♦QT on the board and ♦A9 and ♥5 in hand pitching after E).
2. Play West for the ♦K plus long hearts (run the spades on the board and then cross to the ♦A. The board will have ♦Q and ♥K9 when you cash the club K and you can pitch after West).
3. Play East for the ♦K with anyone having the ♦J and long ♥ (this is just like 2 but you lead the ♦Q off the board after the run of the spades and plan to duck if east doesn't cover and if East covers you pitch the diamond T on the club K and your hand has the diamond 9 threat card).

Also comments on the original line (the original plan was hope for stiff A of hearts with E or Ax of hearts with E [ducking a heart at trick 4 after the Q won] or JT with W [covering the second round making the 9 good] or stiff J or stiff T with E [finesse the 9 after losing the Q]).

I think that the trump lead indicates that the k of diamonds is with west. If I am on lead with an ace I will look for an aggressive lead through dummy to get a second trick. If you have an ace and a K though you begin to suspect that your partner cant have much. Agree that I don't have to decide yet.

[Mbodell]

 phil_20686, on 2014-July-22, 10:05, said:

I think that the trump lead indicates that the k of diamonds is with west. If I am on lead with an ace I will look for an aggressive lead through dummy to get a second trick. If you have an ace and a K though you begin to suspect that your partner cant have much. Agree that I don't have to decide yet.

The contract is 6nt. So not a trump lead. But is through dummy's suit.

[Lovera]

My question was if better choising between Vienna coup and Vienna coup for excellence had been discussed in any book ( and under which conditions ) for a better result.

[Windboe]

First: its not true, that line 2 also works if East has long !H and the♦King.
In the four card ending

---

Nord plays ♦Queen or 10, East covering or not proper. On the ♣King East can discard according to Nord's discard.

I cannot say which Squeeze is working, because there is no indication about.
The line of running the ♠ without cashing the♣King in the hope of getting helpful signals means, the opps have one extra idle card. This might not help but confuse you.
That W didnt return wether a ♥ nor a ♦, might lead to speculations but not to a conclusion of worth.

I have another line which seems me slight better and the bonus of non confusion:
Win the ♠in hand, discard a ♦ on the ♣King, cross to the ♥King and run the ♠.
You will win automatic again West AND East if anybody they has the long ♥+ ♦ King AND Jack.
Its not a very good line, but I see nothing better.

[Lovera]

 Windboe, on 2014-August-05, 12:55, said:

First: its not true, that line 2 also works if East has long !H and the♦King.
In the four card ending

---

Nord plays ♦Queen or 10, East covering or not proper. On the ♣King East can discard according to Nord's discard.

I cannot say which Squeeze is working, because there is no indication about.
The line of running the ♠ without cashing the♣King in the hope of getting helpful signals means, the opps have one extra idle card. This might not help but confuse you.
That W didnt return wether a ♥ nor a ♦, might lead to speculations but not to a conclusion of worth.

I have another line which seems me slight better and the bonus of non confusion:
Win the ♠in hand, discard a ♦ on the ♣King, cross to the ♥King and run the ♠.
You will win automatic again West AND East if anybody they has the long ♥+ ♦ King AND Jack.
Its not a very good line, but I see nothing better.

I have seen now there is another way against longness of heart and diamond King (alone too): a criss cross squeeze (avoiding ambigous Vienna).