[paulg]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-July-16, 02:26, said:

E has no fit for 4-4M and with that shape, no real chance of slam. I don't know what 3♦ would mean in the 4-4M sequence and I suspect they don't either, but I strongly suspect E just bids 3N as with the 5-5 or 6-5 partner would need for slam to be good, 3♦ is probably not what he bids in an undiscussed sequence.

There is a fairly good chance that you'd expect five hearts for the 3♦ bid. Many use 3♦ to show the 5-5 minimum hand, for example. The fact it is undiscussed is not a valid argument really, since East bid 2NT expecting to gain some information and presumably knows the responses, otherwise why bid 2NT?

[Cyberyeti]

paulg, on 2014-July-16, 04:42, said:

There is a fairly good chance that you'd expect five hearts for the 3♦ bid. Many use 3♦ to show the 5-5 minimum hand, for example. The fact it is undiscussed is not a valid argument really, since East bid 2NT expecting to gain some information and presumably knows the responses, otherwise why bid 2NT?

To see if partner bids something exciting at the 4 level, if not he's just bidding 3N ?

I was sitting minding my own business with the spade suit, so I don't know what responses are normal as I don't play this. I suspect the 2N bidder (who is an occasional poster on these boards) has a better idea what 3♦ should mean than the person who bid it.

[jallerton]

Vampyr, on 2014-July-14, 17:23, said:

The law has an error in cases like this. The question should really be 'what would the systemic responses to 2NT be if they were playing a weak 2?'

I know that Paul has previously pointed out that the wording of Law 16B could be improved, but this doesn't actually matter in cases like this.

Law 73C requires West to continue to assume that he has opened a weak 2♦ and that all the subsequent bids mean whatever he would expect them to mean after a weak 2♦ opener.

If East picks up any UI from West, then Law 73C equally requires East to continue to assume that his partner has opened a 'both majors' 2♦ and that all the subsequent bids mean whatever he would expect them to mean after a 'both majors' 2♦ opener.

[Fluffy]

south will bid 3♠ over 2NT with the right info and the contract rates to be 3NT by East 3 down.

[gnasher]

Fluffy, on 2014-July-25, 00:05, said:

south will bid 3♠ over 2NT with the right info and the contract rates to be 3NT by East 3 down.

South had the right information, and he didn't bid 3♠. 2♦ was systemically both majors, and that's what South was told.