[Jinksy]

IMPs. My BBO random expert partner was helpful enough to criticise me for not having rebid 3♠. Given that we were playing 2/1*, I wasn't sure who should have acted more aggressively.

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* Well, we must have been, despite his profile saying 'SAYC' and mine saying 'your card'. You can tell from the bidding, and his expertise.

[PhantomSac]

2s bid totally normal. Passing with 2 aces and qx of spades totally abnormal

[the hog]

Sometimes you can be max for your 2S bid. Nth should bid 3S. Bidding 2NT is horrible.

[Jinksy]

Good point. I got as far as thinking 'pass looks wrong', then my brain switched off.

[jillybean]

Jinksy, on 2015-January-04, 20:37, said:

* Well, we must have been, despite his profile saying 'SAYC' and mine saying 'your card'. You can tell from the bidding, and his expertise.

I would't assume anything with a random partner unless discussed, much like the field for skill level is not very useful,

[SimonFa]

North could be playing SAYC* .....

According to the book Standard Bidding with SAYC by Ned Downey and Ellen Pomer (Caitlin),(page 33), responding to a Major:

- Minimum range 6-9/10HCP and littler interest in game unless partner is very strong.

I don't think your hand counts as very strong.

However that's a very poorly evaluated hand and if playing SAYC I would bid 2D.

If it is 2/1 then passing 2S is another poor evaluation.

Playing 2/1 I might be tempted to bid 3S with South cards and Vul if I know partner is conservative and doesn't just automatically accept invites, but expect to be in a tough game if partner raises.

*In my experience in MBC very few people who have SAYC in their profile are even aware it is a full system and just think it means 5-card majors and strong 1NT.

[biggerclub]

The question for responder is not "PASS, 2NT or 3S?" It is "3S or 4S?" and anything else is not even close.

Here are some (sub) minimum hands for opener where 4S is cold or at least highly probable:

AKxxxx, x, xx, Kxxx (lose 1 trick in each suit other than trump) or JT9xx, Ax, KQxx, Qx (lose 2 trump and either a H or a C but not both). It is absolutely golden to have your Aces outside partner's suit and your fill card (QS) in her suit. There is no better 10 count that lacks a third trump or void.

I am not saying I voted 4S, I didn't. But 4S is better than PASS which is barely worse than 2NT.

Responder cannot bid 3D as that would show 6 diamonds and a near bust.

[nige1]

Jinksy, on 2015-January-04, 20:37, said:

IMPs. My BBO random expert partner was helpful enough to criticise me for not having rebid 3♠. Given that we were playing 2/1*, I wasn't sure who should have acted more aggressively.
* Well, we must have been, despite his profile saying 'SAYC' and mine saying 'your card'. You can tell from the bidding, and his expertise.

---

IMO
After 1♠ - 1N - ??: 2♠ = 10, 3♠ = 9, 2N = 8, 2♣ (Gazzilli) = 11
After 1♠ - 1N - 2♠ - ??: 3♠ = 10, 2N = 9, Pass = 7.

PhantomSac, on 2015-January-04, 21:02, said:

2s bid totally normal. Passing with 2 aces and qx of spades totally abnormal

IMO a 3♠ rebid is a reasonable shot if partner would pass 1♠ on poor hands.

the hog, on 2015-January-04, 21:12, said:

Sometimes you can be max for your 2S bid. Nth should bid 3S. Bidding 2NT is horrible.

IMO, Jinksy's 2N might work better when opener is weaker.
♠ A K x x x x ♥ Q x x ♦ J x ♣ Q x when 3♠ is in jeopardy.
♠ A K x x x x ♥ A J x ♦ J x ♣ J x when 3N is safer than 4♠.

After 1♠ - 1N - 2♠ - 3♠ - ?? Should South consider 3N as well as 4♠?

[PhilKing]

We've seen this honour structure for North in two previous threads. I was a lone voice for jumping to 3NT as I recall, then someone dug up an almost identical hand where Fred did the same.

I would suggest that a jump to 3NT should show this hand type - two aces plus a spade honour. The point is you have 9 tricks opposite AKxxxx plus the heart ace or a min suit king.

It's slightly easier if you play constructive twos in a major, so 1M then 2M is known to be pretty sound. As an aside, I think 2NT over 2♠ should be forcing - if we are not playing in game, it is usually right to prefer 3♠ to 2NT, and the forcing treatment allows us to explore strain more efficiently.

[whereagles]

By definition, blame always goes to the opening poster

In my book opener's rebid is 3♠, while responder's rebid to 2♠ is obviously 3♠ (or 3NT if you feel frisky lol).

Both get 100%

[fourdad]

Whether N bids 1NT or 2D does not alter that S has the count and shape for 3S.

So I give S 100% on the "first error rules" philosophy.

Having said that, I would bid 3S over 2S with the N cards.

[PhilKing]

South has 6 losers that need covering, so there should not be too many hands that pass 2♠ where game is good.

I don't regard 3♠ as being remotely worthy of even meriting discussion.

[Cthulhu D]

KNR has it as a 17 count, but DK points has it at 15? The AK of spades is great, but his other HCP are in short suits. Hand doesn't feel like it is worth significantly more or less than the 15 HCP evaluation imho. I play Gaz, so 1S-1NT-3S is 15-16, and I'd try that here, but playing standard methods this does not feel like a tasty 16+ that I need to bid 3S here.

I mean, if this is 3S, what does partner need to raise a 2S to 3S after a NF 1NT being corrected to 2S?

[gszes]

N should bid 3s over 2s (even thinking about anything else
(especially strain) is bad to worse). Everyone has their favorite
"rules" of how to accept a game invite after 1M 1N 3M. Mine happens
to be 2 aces or greater than 8. Note that the south hand is not
strong enough to invite with 3M since 2 aces does not yield game.

N should realize their 2 aces + working trump Q is more than
strong enough to invite game since opener did not bid 3M where
only 2 aces would be enough for game.

I realize that the pass of 2s can easily be written off to the
steady dilution of opening bid value but this is IMPS not MP so missing
a vul game because one is too afraid of going down just makes no
economical sense.

[whereagles]

PhilKing, on 2015-January-05, 06:26, said:

I don't regard 3♠ as being remotely worthy of even meriting discussion.

Let's agree to disagree then lol.

[MrAce]

3♠ rebid by opener is absurd imo, unless you are playing strong club. Pass with 2 bullets and Qx spade was weird.

[ggwhiz]

We missed a game last night on the identical auction in speedball time trouble.

I said nothing but after the round pard chatted I can't believe I passed 2♠! All caps and with 4 of these

[biggerclub]

nige1, on 2015-January-05, 03:01, said:

After 1♠ - 1N - 2♠ - ??: 3♠ = 10, 2N = 9, Pass = 7.

I think you need to rank 4S as better than Pass. 2 outside Aces and a filling Q are nearly if not fully an opening bid.

nige1, on 2015-January-05, 03:01, said:

After 1♠ - 1N - 2♠ - 3♠ - ?? Should South consider 3N as well as 4♠?

Depends on how much you trust partner . . . pretty damn sure that 2S shows 6, but if there is any chance that partner will read it as 5, then no. And anyway, you have two unbid suits unstopped plus you have "tight" honors in the H suit, so no don't try 3NT.

[bkvaran]

Some experts play 1sp-1NT-2H, as a good 2SP, and 2D showing hearts, (would be perfect here) :-)

[the hog]

bkvaran, on 2015-January-05, 17:43, said:

Some experts play 1sp-1NT-2H, as a good 2SP, and 2D showing hearts, (would be perfect here) :-)

So how do they show Ds?