[jahol]

Hi,

a couple of days ago, I had a small controversion with my partner. Both lines vulnerable, I opened weak two spades and my pard had:

10xx---Axx---Axx---AJxx.

What would you bid?

Pass? 2NT asking for strength and trumph quality? 4 spades? (3 spades are blocking in our agreements so that I do not think, this bid would have been possible).

Jah

[pbleighton]

It depends on what your red-red weak 2s look like.

If they are solid, and if you don't open light at the one level,
I would bid 2NT.

Otherwise pass.

Peter

[han]

My partner rarely has a hand that makes game opposite this collection when he opens 2S. I'd have an easy pass at matchpoints, but at IMPs I would have a hard time.

[EricK]

If your vulnerable weak twos are "respectable" then I would invite (2NT) with this hand.

Eric

[mikestar]

No point trying for game here--a sound conservative weak 2 would have a maximum of five trump tricks and a side card. With your three aces, this is only nine tricks with no play for ten unless partner's side card is the KC--then game requires the club hook. Prospects are dim for 3NT as well--they lead to one of your Aces and unless partner's King is in the same suit, they take out your stopper before the spades are established.

If your partnership opens a weak two on AKQxxx, then bid 2NT and pass when partner shows this hand by bidding 3NT--over any other reply, sign off in 3S.

[Double !]

I would bid 2NT, Ogust or whatever. If P shows a good hand, especially with good suit, I would rebid 3NT: the 3rd spade in my hand increases chance of running the suit. The outside ace are fast winners/ don't have to give up the lead to establish the tricks. 3NT is on a hook opposite AQJ6th and out, so a pass of 2S seems rather conservative IMO. A lot depends on how disciplined one's wk 2s are. If opener can have most of hand outside of spades, then the decision becomes much more difficult imo.

[cherdano]

I think opposite a "good suit, max"-response to Ogust, I want to be in game. There will be many hands where game has no play, but there are many other hands where I can hope to score ♣J or the 4th club, making it a good bet.
However, opposite any minimum response, I expect 8 tricks, so trying for game can cost 5 IMPs. I think it is better to pass.
In a recent match, my partner held x AJxxx Axxx Axx opposite my non-vul vs non-vul weak 2♠. With that hand, pass is clear in my opinion.

Arend

[hrothgar]

Some additional information would be useful. Most notably:

1. Did you open in first seat or second?
2. Whats your preemptive style?

Regardless, here are my thoughts:

If you are going to make game, you should be looking for 3NT hoping to make six Spade tricks in partner's hand in addition to your three bullets. In an ideal world, partner will table

AQJxxx
xx
xxx
xx

or some such...

Personally, I'd like to be able to ask for trump quality since I think that running Spade tricks are the key to getting to the right game. With this said and done, the choice of bid depends on your response structure (which once again, has not been provided)

[pclayton]

2N - for a few reasons.

On a good day, pard will rebid 3N on AKQxxx. Even over any response that shows a good suit, 3N is the right shot vul at IMPs, hoping for AKxxxx or AQJxxx.

If pard shows a good hand and a poor suit, this is a bigger problem. But certainly we are single stopped in one of the other suits.

Pass is pretty wimpy.

[han]

I had a somewhat similar hand today: Jxxx Axxx Axx Ax, partner opened 2H at all white (very undiciplined). RHO overcalled 2S, I bid 4H, and RHO bid 4S. Would you pass, double or bid 5H?

[Winstonm]

This is a good question and better emphasizes the issue I made in a previous post. The question is how many "losers" does partner hold.

For imp purposes, you can count your hand as 4 cover cards as long as your partner guarantees a 6-card suit for his weak 2-bid. (The reason is the third spade gives you a 9-card fit and even opposite Jxxxxx the suit will play for 2 losers 40% of the time, enough for game at imps. Same consideration holds true for Axxxxx, AQxxxx, AJ10xxx and the like. If you both count true losers in the trump suit you are underestimating the trick-taking potential of the 9-card fit. Hence, one of you and sometimes both of you has to add a value.) So at imps, if partner has opened with AKxxxx, x, xx, xxxx you would count the AKxxxx as no losers and the 10xx as 1 cover card and you would get to game opposite 10xx, Axx, Axxx, Axx on the following auction:

2S-2NT (LTC ask)
3D*-3H**
3N***-4S

* 7 losers
** trump suit ask
*** No loser trump suit (only for imp purposes and assumes a 6/3 fit count AK, AQJ and AKJ as no loser trump suit.)

Using 2NT as an LTC ask, you would assume partner has 9,8,7, or 6 losers. If he holds 6 or 7, you would want to be in game; with 9 or 8, you would want to block with 3 spades anyway so it doesn't hurt to ask.

In my opinion, the LTC method helps guage when to try for game and when to pass and gets you to more of the 40% games (about the break even point at imps) than the traditional methods.

WinstonM

[pbleighton]

"I had a somewhat similar hand today: Jxxx Axxx Axx Ax, partner opened 2H at all white (very undiciplined). RHO overcalled 2S, I bid 4H, and RHO bid 4S. Would you pass, double or bid 5H?"

Pass at Imps, double at MPs.

Peter

[han]

I'm glad that you would have passed Peter, because so did I (IMPs). We set it two for +100, but a double would make declarer guess the spades for +100. 5H would make miraculously.

[Flame]

4S is bad it doesnt make even if partner has AKQJXX XXX XXX X
3NT could make, so i might bid 2nt to ask and bid game if partner show a godo suit, however i think this is right only non vul at imps, at any other situation ill just bid 3sp premptively.

[Free]

Pass... You can't ruff anything, and if partner's trumps are very good, then he won't find a 10th trick in a sidesuit anyway. The only possible game imo is 3NT, but then you'll need to find out about trump strength.

[jahol]

Opposite hand:

AQJxxx---Jx---10xxx---x

Nothing special, but playing small spade from dummy, singleton king appeared and with diam 3-3, the game was laydown. Of course, the probability of making the game was fairly low in this case, but the hand could have been much better many ways.

Seems to me that the hands like I mentioned at the beginning of this discussion are sometimes underestimated.

Jahol

[HeartA]

Free, on Mar 7 2005, 04:25 AM, said:

Pass... You can't ruff anything, and if partner's trumps are very good, then he won't find a 10th trick in a sidesuit anyway. The only possible game imo is 3NT, but then you'll need to find out about trump strength.

Why do I need to ruff anything? 6♠ plus 4 side winners are possible. I would bid 2NT (Ogust).

[HeartA]

Hannie, on Mar 6 2005, 07:39 PM, said:

I had a somewhat similar hand today: Jxxx Axxx Axx Ax, partner opened 2H at all white (very undiciplined). RHO overcalled 2S, I bid 4H, and RHO bid 4S. Would you pass, double or bid 5H?

Hmmm, this is more difficult. I would probably pass, dbl if in desperate.

[inquiry]

Couple of points. Even opposite this hand, game is only 16% chance of making (3-3 diamonds and spade king onside to three or less cards.. here I assume you are missing K987 of spades). Thanks, but I will choose to stay out of 16% games (ok. closer to 17%).

Can opener's hand be better? Hardly. I would open this hand 1♠ if you simply exchanged the diamond Ten and heart Jack... so that I have
AQJxxx Tx Jxxx x

I can't imagine stregthening this hand anymore and still opening it two spade, but I can imagine weaking it a lot ands still opening 2S... so this, the strongest it could be hand is still only 16 (ok, ok, 17%) chance of game.

Ben

[Free]

HeartA, on Mar 10 2005, 09:22 PM, said:

Free, on Mar 7 2005, 04:25 AM, said:

Pass...  You can't ruff anything, and if partner's trumps are very good, then he won't find a 10th trick in a sidesuit anyway.  The only possible game imo is 3NT, but then you'll need to find out about trump strength.

Why do I need to ruff anything? 6♠ plus 4 side winners are possible. I would bid 2NT (Ogust).

Yes, like you say, you'll need 6 tricks in ♠ AND another trick in a sidesuit (how strong is you weak two??). This already means you need at least 1 finesse, and a decent split somehow... That's why imo 3NT is a much better contract, since you don't really need that sidesuit trick. So if you can ask for trump quality, I'd actually do that so we don't miss the 3NT (but I won't go for 4♠).