[sheilafran]

Please can you help with the two following situations playing teams of four

1. The bidding goes 1h p 4h X... is this double for takeout or for penalty


2. the bidding goes 1h p 2h X 4h p p X.. is this double for takeout or for penalty


Thanks

[ggwhiz]

In my partnership these doubles are both takeout BUT partner will strain to leave them in unless they have ambitions of making what they bid.

The opponents have a fit, often a large one but a double at that level has extra strength so something like 6-4 distribution opposite with not many values can pull it and a flat hand should pass.

When it's passed out and they make it the loss rates to be 5 imps (-590 vs -420) which is an acceptable cost of doing business for us against the many times we have landed on our feet.

[Tramticket]

Yes I agree with this.

Note that on the first auction the bidding has reached a high level very quickly, so a double will need to cover a large variety of strong hands - so it may not have a classic take-out double shape.

The second hand is slightly different. The first double is a take-out double of two hearts. It will usually guarantee at least three cards in each unbid suit and shortage in hearts. It may not be particularly strong. The second double shows extra strength - but the shape hasn't changed(!). When responding it is reasonable to assume that partner has at least three-card support. But, again the most common action will be to pass for penalties.

[apollo1201]

I think previous posters expressed it right. It is a "transformable" TOX (some call it optional) made with at least a (very) sound TOX with defensive values, partner is expected to leave it with a flattish hand (thinking the combined defensive values will set 4H), or pull with shape or adequate strenght (to make). A typical hand:
AQxx
x
KQJx
Axxx

Even if you catch partner with a flat hand with 0 HCP, 4H could fail. If you catch him with
JTxxx
xx
xx
Kxxx
4S is odds on.

This post has been edited by apollo1201: 2015-August-23, 03:03

[BillPatch]

apollo1201, on 2015-August-22, 10:57, said:

I think previous posters expressed it right. It is a "transformable" TOX (some call it optional) made with at least a (very) sound TOX with defensive values, partner is expected to leave it with a flattish hand (thinking the combined defensive values will set 4H), or pull with shape or adequate strenght (to make). A typical hand:
AQxx
x
KQJx
Axxx

Even if you catch partner with a flat hand with 0 HCP, 4H could fail. If you catch him with
JTxxx
xx
xx
Kxxxx
4S is odds on.

Game may be odds on declaring that hand, but it has 14 cards, and the opponent with 12 cards might notice in time. I would upvote the rest of your post,

[apollo1201]

BillPatch, on 2015-August-22, 16:45, said:

Game may be odds on declaring that hand, but it has 14 cards, and the opponent with 12 cards might notice in time. I would upvote the rest of your post,

Thanks again for spotting (edited). I think I will (i) re-read more carefully all my posts before posting and (ii) submit them to you 1st just in case .

[BillPatch]

apollo1201, on 2015-August-23, 03:05, said:

Thanks again for spotting (edited). I think I will (i) re-read more carefully all my posts before posting and (ii) submit them to you 1st just in case .

I know my partners think I need more practice counting to 13, but this is ridiculous! Now both hands posted have 14 cards.

[ggwhiz]

BillPatch, on 2015-August-23, 11:43, said:

I know my partners think I need more practice counting to 13, but this is ridiculous! Now both hands posted have 14 cards.

Take off one of your shoes and yes, you do

[MrAce]

sheilafran, on 2015-August-22, 07:07, said:

Please can you help with the two following situations playing teams of four

1. The bidding goes 1h p 4h X... is this double for takeout or for penalty


2. the bidding goes 1h p 2h X 4h p p X.. is this double for takeout or for penalty


Thanks

When they bid and raise, especially when they raise heavily, ALL doubles are take out/negative or card showing. Basically anything but penalty. That does not mean pd can not convert it to penalty, if he thinks sitting on double is more beneficial and/or less risky decision for us.

[BillPatch]

ggwhiz, on 2015-August-23, 13:52, said:

Take off one of your shoes and yes, you do

Thank you for your continued support. Counting to thirteen cards is one of the most important exercises in the upper levels of play or defense. But I prefer the counting tool on the Bridgeinners site to your method of fingers and toes.

My problem is I feel like a failure as a bridge teacher when I specify that one hand is wrong with 14 cards and the student goes to another hand and adds a fourteenth card.

[ggwhiz]

BillPatch, on 2015-August-24, 03:28, said:

Thank you for your continued support. Counting to thirteen cards is one of the most important exercises in the upper levels of play or defense. But I prefer the counting tool on the Bridgeinners site to your method of fingers and toes.

My problem is I feel like a failure as a bridge teacher when I specify that one hand is wrong with 14 cards and the student goes to another hand and adds a fourteenth card.

Just pulling your leg

[BillPatch]

ggwhiz, on 2015-August-24, 11:04, said:

Just pulling your leg

And I was just playing the straight man.