[oryctolagi]

On this deal, sitting East:

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I had that annoying hand, just one point light for 2nt, and we weren't playing benji else I think I could have bid 2♣ on values. I know now I should have passed 3nt, but I felt I had understated my hand with 3♦, and I could see a chance of slam if partner had two aces, so I ventured gerber 4♣, assuming partner would recognise that no trumps were agreed (partners card did have gerber on it).

No joy. My 4♣ was passed out and I went 3 down. Partner seemed (understandably) annoyed....

Advice?

[sfi]

Well, 4C is forcing in any standard sort of system, so I don't really see partner having much reason to be annoyed. Not playing Gerber in these sorts of situations, I would expect it to be a club control looking for a diamond slam - a hand that is unsuitable for 3NT for some reason.

As to your actions, 3D is an underbid but not ridiculously so. I would probably have bid opened 1D planning to rebid 2NT, which happens to give partner a good picture of the fit and values. After a 1C bid, 2NT is probably the best option despite the fit. If I choose that, I would definitely sit a 3NT raise. On the actual auction you should probably just sit 3NT anyway.

[rmnka447]

There are 19 HCP hands and there are 19 HCP hands. If you were a point shy OK, but count your QTs. 4 1/2 by my reckoning -- that's a lot in any hand. It really points to all your points being prime trick taking cards. It's a hand that's better than more than a few hands you might rebid 2 NT with. Do you have anything else? Yes, lots of working intermediates (10s, 9s, 8s) and they are working in concert with your honors. So you've got a super 19++ hand.

I'd rebid 2 NT with your hand.

Once you've failed to bid 2 NT and bid 3 ♦ which you considered an underbid, you should sit for 3 NT. Trust your initial judgment. It rarely turns out well when you try a make up bid. Think of it this way. How often is partner going to have the magic hand that makes slam versus a hand that makes some number of NT less than slam. Probably a lot less. So sitting will be right most of the time. When it isn't, just make your amends to partner and move on.

[oryctolagi]

Thanks for the advice, I'll put this all down to experience. Of course my opponents didn't help me out by doubling, not even the one who held six clubs to QJ10! And my partner quit the table, without a word, as soon as the hand was played out, so I had no chance to talk it over. Ah well!

Talking of doubling (or rather, not doubling) reminds me of another deal I sat at, in one of my first sorties into BBO. Sitting South, with a few spades but no points, I heard:

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Clearly East - a beginner - had not heard of forcing cue-bids. This put me in a dilemma. Clearly the ethical thing was to double, to give the unfortunate West an escape route. But would this be misunderstood by my partner? Whilst I was thinking it over, West saved me the problem by asking for an UNDO, which of course my partner and I were happy to accept. He then changed his bid to 2♥ and made 3♥ comfortably. I think justice was done - even though I lost out!

[Stephen Tu]

oryctolagi, on 2015-November-19, 05:02, said:

Clearly East - a beginner - had not heard of forcing cue-bids. This put me in a dilemma. Clearly the ethical thing was to double, to give the unfortunate West an escape route. But would this be misunderstood by my partner?

There's nothing in bridge ethics that requires you to double. Passing is perfectly ethical.

If it's a "friendly", "non-competitive" game where everyone is just there to learn, then you can tell beginner that it's a cue bid, shouldn't pass, undo his pass. But arguably one learns faster just eating the bad result, you remember spectacular disasters more vividly then you won't pass cue bid in the future.

[oryctolagi]

As it happens, I fell victim myself yesterday, but it wasn't my fault! I'd doubled my RHO's 1♥ opener for takeout, and my partner passed it out - ostensibly for penalties. I was already a bit suspicious before my lead, since I held ♥K6 myself, and I could only watch ruefully as declarer made +2 when there was a good game for us - and a complete 'bottom' in IMPs.... Experience again! My partner was very apologetic after I (tactfully) explained the problem afterwards. And I would have really LOVED a redouble from RHO, but it wasn't to be...

I suppose I could have asked for an UNDO, but I don't like UNDO's. I think I learnt my bridge under the firm principle, what's bid is bid; what's played is played: no going back. And I recognise the immense value of BBO, a (mostly) friendly environment where you can stay on good terms with both partner and opponents and enjoy bridge in the best way it can be enjoyed. I don't like stepping outside the box, so to speak. Also yesterday, I felt a bit embarrassed when my partner (a different one) asked for an UNDO after opening 1♥, which was given, and then amended their bid to 1NT. I felt I might have been shown my partner's hearts in a way which I wasn't entitled to (assuming it wasn't a mis-click). I told the opponents this, but they laughed it off.... Very decent of them.

[Stephen Tu]

Undos really ought to be only for misclicks, not mistakes or changes of mind, IMO. When you were really aiming for another bid/card and missed.

[oryctolagi]

Stephen Tu, on 2015-November-20, 11:18, said:

Undos really ought to be only for misclicks, not mistakes or changes of mind, IMO. When you were really aiming for another bid/card and missed.

I fully agree. Otherwise the whole spirit of Bridge is lost. Will people be allowing UNDOs in chess, next? The problem is, will everyone be honest about this? I suppose there's no answer to that. Sometimes you just have to trust.

I notice that there's an option on BBO to require yes/no confirmation of every bid and play. Probably a good idea if you're playing from a smartphone - or have shaky hands!

[oryctolagi]

As it happens, something similar happened today. My partner opened 1♣, then when, after a pause, I passed with my mere 5 points, partner then asked for an UNDO which was granted (not by me!), and amended their bid to 2♣ (presumably Benji since that was on both our cards). Note that my pause had given my partner ample time to ask for the UNDO before my bid - if it was indeed a mis-click.

I felt it would be better if another player took over my hand, without the knowledge of my partner's clubs that I'd acquired in an unorthodox way, so I'm afraid I left the table there and then.

I know full well that the Acol club is fairly informal and indeed I want to play bridge with a light touch and good humour, but sorry, such things are not in my vocabulary. I don't want to come across as all didactic, but even in friendly bridge there are rules...

[oryctolagi]

And another UNDO issue. My partner, as declarer, made what I would regard as a mis-click. Leading from dummy towards AQ10, evidently intending to take deep finesse, RHO came up with J and declarer followed with 10. Evidently played too fast, had mouse hovering over 10 and didn't notice J until too late!

But declarer's UNDO request was rejected. I think that cost us a trick. Ah well, these things happen...

[diana_eva]

oryctolagi, on 2015-November-27, 15:58, said:

And another UNDO issue. My partner, as declarer, made what I would regard as a mis-click. Leading from dummy towards AQ10, evidently intending to take deep finesse, RHO came up with J and declarer followed with 10. Evidently played too fast, had mouse hovering over 10 and didn't notice J until too late!

But declarer's UNDO request was rejected. I think that cost us a trick. Ah well, these things happen...

Playing too fast is not a misclick. I wd have rejected undo as well if it looked like a careless play.