[Shugart23]

kenrexford, on 2015-December-09, 11:48, said:

In MICS, you open 1NT with 13 to 15 and balanced. You can upgrade 5332 12 counts as well, if appropriate.

Consider, then, 11 to 12 HCP hands and balanced. You could pass these in MICS and have a pure canape expectation, or one suit 6+. Most of us don't like that idea. You could pass the 11 counts, open the 12s 1NT if you like the hand, and expand the range to 12+ to 15. Some don't like that large of a range.

For those like me who like to open a lot of 11s and 12s, an option is to add these into 1M openings. With no major, pass unless you consider the hand upgraded to 13, at least plausibly. Some trouble pattern 12s with a major might also be stretched to plaudible 13 upgrades.

With good pattern 11/12 and a major 4-5, or 44 majors, opening 1M is ok in MICS. There is an unwind described in my book to cater to this.

Never in MICS would you open 1D with balanced, with one exception. There is a lot to be said for treating a cov 5332 with 5M/3D as two suited, opening 1D planning to complete canape into the major.

I believe your book arrives in my mail box tomorrow. I have also printed out the link that PrecsionL had on his post which has a Canape section...I do love my weak 10-12/13 NT......Thanks, Ken

[kenrexford]

Shugart23, on 2015-December-09, 13:00, said:

I believe your book arrives in my mail box tomorrow. I have also printed out the link that PrecsionL had on his post which has a Canape section...I do love my weak 10-12/13 NT......Thanks, Ken

I hope you enjoy that.

[mikestar13]

kenrexford, on 2015-December-09, 11:48, said:

In MICS, you open 1NT with 13 to 15 and balanced. You can upgrade 5332 12 counts as well, if appropriate.

Consider, then, 11 to 12 HCP hands and balanced....

I rather like passing flat 11's and poor 12's and don't mind a wide range 1NT, I should probably give MICS a closer look. With the adaptation suggested above, the weak balanced problem disappears.

[SteelWheel]

mikestar13, on 2015-December-09, 19:55, said:

I rather like passing flat 11's and poor 12's and don't mind a wide range 1NT, I should probably give MICS a closer look. With the adaptation suggested above, the weak balanced problem disappears.

The way I'm playing it right now is 12-15 NT, with the understanding that NV, a hand with 2.5 or 3 quick tricks looks like a 12 count. So far, no problems.

[Shugart23]

are most of these opening canapé bids alertable ? eg..if 2H promises 5+ Hearts and Clubs...or if 1S may have a longer Diamond suit....etc ?

[kenrexford]

Shugart23, on 2015-December-10, 06:55, said:

are most of these opening canapé bids alertable ? eg..if 2H promises 5+ Hearts and Clubs...or if 1S may have a longer Diamond suit....etc ?

This is weird. All openings except 1M are alerted. 1M is not alerted, but a canape rebid is.

[mgoetze]

Shugart23, on 2015-December-10, 06:55, said:

are most of these opening canapé bids alertable ? eg..if 2H promises 5+ Hearts and Clubs...or if 1S may have a longer Diamond suit....etc ?

As always, this depends entirely on your jurisdiction.

[Shugart23]

got your book Ken , and starting going through it...At first glance, I see why forcing 1NT really doesn't work over 1H or 1S, But to my initial delight, it appears your Responders 2C bid over Opener's 1H or 1S can be very analogous to my current unlimited 1NT Response to 1 of a Major...I think I might be able to fold in many of my methods into your flexible Responder's 2C bid....

[kenrexford]

Shugart23, on 2015-December-11, 06:56, said:

got your book Ken , and starting going through it...At first glance, I see why forcing 1NT really doesn't work over 1H or 1S, But to my initial delight, it appears your Responders 2C bid over Opener's 1H or 1S can be very analogous to my current unlimited 1NT Response to 1 of a Major...I think I might be able to fold in many of my methods into your flexible Responder's 2C bid....

The 2C sequences are nice.

[Shugart23]

so currently, when my partner opens , say 1H and Opponents overcall 2C, we play lebensohl and it has worked out fine for us.....If I stay at the two level, I generally expect Opener to Pass, if I bid 2NT It's a relay to 3C and if I go to the 3 level, then we are going to game most likely.....Not sure I can incorporate this kind of scheme in canapé system with strong club.

Can others suggest methods to deal with simple overcalls over 1H or 1S for me to think about (as opposed to me reinventing the wheel)

[shevek]

kenrexford, on 2015-December-09, 06:07, said:

With MICS, 1NT covers all 13 to 15 balanced hands. The problem from the double perspective, as you mention, if the 1M opening when weak balanced, 11-12. This does not affect the 1D openings, but it does create discomfort and inconsistency when Responder doubles.

This reality is why I use semiforcing.

It also, however, brings up the thinking behind balanced openings. You tend to predict, in a sense, the trouble double. 5332 weak is not terrible, because you pretend 6 and end up 5-2 at the 2 level. 4-card anchors are best with 44 majors or 44 major clubs.

I played against a pair who would open 1♦ with 5M332 10-12. That seems legal most places and has some merit.
So their 1♦ was any 10-12 bal. 2♣ & 2♦ where natural, no major since canapé.

[all loomis]

Shugart23, on 2015-December-08, 09:51, said:

Partner and I are thinking of throwing out all our 11-15 HCP precision opening bids and learn/cross over to a canapé style of bidding (keeping 1C as strong).

In our current methods, we have developed a pretty comprehensive forcing and unlimited 1NT response to Partner's opening of 1H or 1S.....(see Oliver Clarke's Pigpen Bridge link).

Having never played canope, do we have to give up forcing NT over partner's opening of one of a Major ?

Totally independent of that question, when Opener bids canope style, say opens 1S and Partner does not have 4 Spades, does Partner Respond canope style as well or does partner respond in a more standard fashion.

Thank you for any response

if 1nt is 12-15, then opener has a rebid he wants to make. i tried an upper suit first with some success, the only payback is that r can not make a false preference to the first suit, which means you play 2-minor more than you want in pairs. so then we went to canape, and that gets some good results, and some bad. on balance i decided long suit first was way to go.

final big club sys was based on roman: 2c and 2d to cover the 3x4's, 1h/s 5 with shape, 1d either 5card minor with shape. i've got some flashy 1c rebids too, but that's a different post.