[xx1943]

Jlall, on Apr 26 2005, 04:50 PM, said:

How is 3S a cuebid? This is basic bridge 101, 3H DEFINITELY does not set trumps. What else are you going to bid with a hand like Kxxxx Qx Jxx Jxx after 1H p 1S p 3D? Trumps are only set when you have a known 8 card fit, and 3H is almost always based on TWO trumps (with normal ranged hands and 5-3 in the majors partner would raise immediately, so he either has a 3 card limit or 6+ spades if he has 3 hearts).

This is what I thought, when I bid 3♠. I was searching for the best game denomination.
Ty Justin. I was a bit confused from some of the above posts.

[Fluffy]

Jlall, on Apr 26 2005, 02:50 PM, said:

How is 3S a cuebid? This is basic bridge 101, 3H DEFINITELY does not set trumps. What else are you going to bid with a hand like Kxxxx Qx Jxx Jxx after 1H p 1S p 3D? Trumps are only set when you have a known 8 card fit, and 3H is almost always based on TWO trumps (with normal ranged hands and 5-3 in the majors partner would raise immediately, so he either has a 3 card limit or 6+ spades if he has 3 hearts).

Disagree, on teh hand you posted I would bid 4♥, of course that's jsut a matter of style, but setting trumps at the 3 level to be able to cue is a pilar of my system.

[beatrix45]

Jlall, on Apr 26 2005, 07:50 AM, said:

What else are you going to bid with a hand like Kxxxx Qx Jxx Jxx after 1H p 1S p 3D?

Responder's priorities over the 3♦ game force ought to be:
1. Rebid spades with five
2. Bid NT with a club stop
3. Raise diamonds with four

I think that rebidding spades even with five small is important. A fairly high percentage of opener's 3♦ rebids are based on hands with three card spade support where opener badly needs news of the 5-3 major fit. All the world knows that a 3♥ preference may (once in a great while) be based on a small doubleton if responder has 4-2-3-4 distribution with four small clubs.

After the 3♥ preference, is 3♠ by opener a cue bid? I dunno for sure, but it is very useful as a natural bid with honour third in spades. It's a way to find a Moyesian fit, which may be the only decent game. Failing that, it can coax a 3NT bid (a near club stop, 10862), or 4♦ (decent three card diamond support and nothing else to bid), or 4♥ (better than minimum heart support).

When opener bids 4♦ over 3♥, SHE is confirming hearts and suggesting slam. Hearts is the spot, and she doesn't give a rat's patootie if you just have a small doubleton in support.

[kenberg]

There seems to be varied opinions about the exact meaning of 3H and 3S. I'll tell you what I would do with a casual partner. I think the same woould apply in a more developed partnership as well, but I would be interested in hearing more.


If my deuce of hearts were the deuce of clubs, I would not take a preference to hearts but rather bid 3S now, and 4H next (including if partner bid 3NT over 3S). On this basis, when I actually do bid 3H, as here, it is not a preference with Kx. On some auctions I take a preference on Kx (maybe even on less) but here the 3D bid gives me the luxury of bidding 3H only when I want to clearly state my support. With less, I give delayed support.

It seems clear to me that this is the way to avoid trouble in a casual partnership but really I don't see that anything else is better even in a mature partnership. I hold spades and hearts, and my bidding shows spades and hearts. How bad can this be?

Ken

[cf_John0]

3S is a bad raise bid because of 1S may a 4card-suit,;and it's a wrong cue-bid of no SA.
If the south had SA instead of SK,3S does not indicate Club control.
The normal bidding sequence may as below:

1H 1S
3D 3H
4D 4H
=

[mike777]

Jlall, on Apr 18 2005, 08:09 AM, said:

auction was fine until 3S. Your pard should bid 5S or 5H over that

Must say I thought this one was very standard and obvious.

Justin and Phil's comments of jumping to 5 level.

From all these complicated answers I guess nothing in bridge is standard and obvious.

[beatrix45]

mike777, on Apr 26 2005, 11:00 PM, said:

From all these complicated answers I guess nothing in bridge is standard and obvious.

No, but there is science and reason versus ignorance and superstition.

[whereagles]

People sometimes make heavy weather out of a hand because it is presented as a problem. At table they seldom think of so many thing as they say here. They just play bridge

[Fluffy]

Jlall, on Apr 26 2005, 07:55 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Apr 26 2005, 12:59 PM, said:

Disagree, on teh hand you posted I would bid 4♥,  of course that's jsut a matter of style, but setting trumps at the 3 level to be able to cue is a pilar of my system.

Interesting, finding 8 card fits is a pillar of my system.

Hey!, I though it was you americans who loved to raise 1x-1M with 3 cards :-P

[Double !]

I am going to dare disagree with many of the respondents to this thread and offer another sequence for consideration. While I don't necessarily disagree with the 3 diamond GF jump-shift, this bid unfortunately ate up a level of bidding room.

My (less-than-expert) suggestion, submitted for your consideration, is to rebid 3 spades over 3 diamonds. I want to emphasize my spade length and relative strength as a potential source of tricks as well as describing my hand. Then I plan to show my heart support. ie 4H over 3N, 5H over 4S, etc. Hopefully, the strong hand will then be better placed to decide on what further action, if any, to take. And, I believe, that any RKC bid would now be double suit agreement. Even if it isn't, doesn't this suggested sequence show responder's hand?

(My suggested sequence might be influenced by the fact that, if playing 2/1, I strongly prefer playing 2/1 GF except for suit rebid, so I don't play nor really like wjs. Actually I play 2S/1H as an unspecified strong J-S, oh dinosaur that I am.
J-S over 1m is a 2-way bid, either strong or a fit bid.)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I am no expert either, but if you bid 3S instead of 3H,
it will become difficult to convince partner, that you have
primary support in hearts.

Opener will most likely consider 4H bid over 3NT as
a bid looking for the best game.

Another problem is, that 3NT by opener is still natural,
sugesting a place to play. In the actual situation opener
has no real obvious cue bid available,
- 4C, no club control
- 4D, may still be natural showing 6-5

The solution of course is, to bid 5S => asking for a contol
in club, the "standard" meaning in this special sequence.
But since for several people on this forum 3H did not set
trumps, i.e. 3S was still looking for the right suit, I am not
sure, that there is only one meaning for this bid.
(Personally I play 5S just as an ask about trump quality, so that
I hope, I got this one right, i.e. 5S as an ask for a club control.)

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Double !]

Enlighten me. Why would it be impossible to convince parter that I have a decent heart holding if I pull 3NT to 4H's on what, up to that point, sounded like a possible mis-fit auction? How do I say, "Hey P, I have 6 decent spades and some heart support for you but no controls in the minors?" Without decent support, why would one pull 3NT to 4H?

DHL

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

simply put: you did not raise, hence you
dont have primary support.

The 3NT bid by partner was a suggestion,
denying 2 spades, shwoing a club stopper,
maybe he holds a 5-4-3-1 shape.
Your 4H bid over his 3NT bid, says simply,
you prefer to play hearts.

With kind regards
Marlowe