Opener's No Trump rebid after interference.
#21
Posted 2018-July-30, 16:43
Over 1H overcall one can play things such as x = 4+ spades, 1s = values without spades. Over 1S it's tougher, depending on how much you want to guarantee x having 4 hearts. Certainly there are hands that can fall through the cracks and you lose a partial swing. But your partner passing with an 11 count is nuts.
#22
Posted 2018-July-30, 17:48
pescetom, on 2018-July-30, 14:35, said:
I wouldn't recommend that to Novice and Beginner, nor would I bother them with legacy systems however interesting.
Depending on the point locations, it's not unreasonable to open a weak NT with a 5-4-2-2 distribution. If the good chunk of the points are located in the doubletons, opening a weak NT is often right. In the hand in question, the points are located in the long suits, so 1 ♦ is preferable. Without interference, opener's rebid with the hand would normally be 2 ♦ to limit the hand as a minimum unbalanced hand unless responder bid 1 ♥. After a 1 ♥ response, opener has to raise to 2 ♥ even though the system expectation is that 2 ♥ shows 15-17 and 4 ♥.
The real culprit on the hand was the "Master" for bidding 2 ♣ with a 4 card suit. Had "Master" passed, the weak NT hand would rebid 2 ♦ to probably a much better result.
Typically if you're opening a weak 1 NT on a 5-4-2-2 hand, it's more like ♠ Kx ♥ KJxx ♦ Jxxxx ♣ Ax.
I normally wouldn't recommend that a newer player attempt to play KS. Some of the bidding agreements, especially in the minor suit opening auctions, can run a bit different than for the agreements in systems based on Standard American and strong NTs. It's much more than just changing to a different 1 NT range and assuming a Standard bidding structure still applies.
But I was answering a specific query on the KS system and wanted to make sure the right information was given.
#23
Posted 2018-July-30, 18:05
rmnka447, on 2018-July-30, 17:48, said:
The real culprit on the hand was the "Master" for bidding 2 ♣ with a 4 card suit. Had "Master" passed, the weak NT hand would rebid 2 ♦ to probably a much better result.
Typically if you're opening a weak 1 NT on a 5-4-2-2 hand, it's more like ♠ Kx ♥ KJxx ♦ Jxxxx ♣ Ax.
I normally wouldn't recommend that a newer player attempt to play KS. Some of the bidding agreements, especially in the minor suit opening auctions, can run a bit different than for the agreements in systems based on Standard American and strong NTs. It's much more than just changing to a different 1 NT range and assuming a Standard bidding structure still applies.
But I was answering a specific query on the KS system and wanted to make sure the right information was given.
Yes, thank you. I like 1d then 2d more now than I did at the time, lol. I was "trained" to rebid 2 of a minor with 6, and commonly open 1d then rebid 2c with "many" 2-2-4-5... I see this is not as common nowadays as I think it once was. That's not exactly a KS issue, as the problem occurs in both ranges.
#24
Posted 2018-July-30, 18:11
Stephen Tu, on 2018-July-30, 16:43, said:
Over 1H overcall one can play things such as x = 4+ spades, 1s = values without spades. Over 1S it's tougher, depending on how much you want to guarantee x having 4 hearts. Certainly there are hands that can fall through the cracks and you lose a partial swing. But your partner passing with an 11 count is nuts.
Thank you for your reply; of course it mimics my thinking so I'm especially thankful, lol. I wonder if there is a definitive "standard" for the sequence in question. OFC if you do something 40 years an it works well for ya, all power to you and your approach; but doesn't exactly make it the de facto thing, if that's the right term. But i'm now more open to the reality "both" approaches might be "acceptable". (Although the 15-19 range makes me uncomfortable, as I would never do a 2n jump here (18-19) it's like asking for big trouble with little reward likely.)
#25
Posted 2018-July-31, 04:27
Zelandakh, on 2017-June-19, 06:13, said:
and then when/how do you make a support double?
#28
Posted 2018-July-31, 09:18
helene_t, on 2018-July-31, 06:19, said:
I would put it more strongly: support doubles are a really bad idea with a Weak No Trump (particularly if playing four-card majors in a system where you open 1M before 1m).
Support doubles were invented to fill a weakness in the standard strong no trump / five-card major systems.
#29
Posted 2018-August-02, 09:34
Tramticket, on 2018-July-31, 09:18, said:
Support doubles were invented to fill a weakness in the standard strong no trump / five-card major systems.
No they weren't.
They were invented by Rodwell to fill a weakness in which his then-partner occasionally responded in a 3 card major.
#30
Posted 2018-August-02, 10:57
Zelandakh, on 2017-June-21, 23:28, said:
Thi should is the thing I hate about weak NT, because obviously you may have to double with less if you are shapely. However the advantages are such that weak NT is by far my preferred system.
#31
Posted 2018-August-02, 10:58
mikeh, on 2018-August-02, 09:34, said:
They were invented by Rodwell to fill a weakness in which his then-partner occasionally responded in a 3 card major.
But Trams first point, that they work badly with a weak NT, is valid.