[AL78]

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2♠ asks me to bid 2NT with a minimum, or 3♣ with a maximum, and I judged the hand to be closer to maximum. When South comes winging in with 3♠ I feel obligated to double on principle, even though I know partner is trying to take out into a long minor (unfortunately I don't know which one, otherwise I would support it). Unfortunately thanks to the double fit the contract is rock solid.

South said "I had a brain freeze" in response to the enquiry from North as to why she didn't bid Landy.

At least we finished a respectable score of just over 57% this time.

[LBengtsson]

Partner west know what you have - 1NT opening - you not know what partner have??? Allow partner to X, not you.

[Douglas43]

It is a disadvantage of this transfer method that you cannot be sure which suit partner has and thus how high to compete. Having said that I use it with a weak NT and at least with that a double such as yours is take-out (not a penalty double with a 12-14 opener). Is there a bid available for a take-out? 3NT for example?

[pescetom]

Hands like W make me feel warm and comfortable about playing a Stayman that replies 2♦ without a 5-card major.

I still don't see why she had to go through the Range Ask: don't you have a transfer to diamonds?

[AL78]

pescetom, on 2020-December-11, 11:26, said:

Hands like W make me feel warm and comfortable about playing a Stayman that replies 2♦ without a 5-card major.

I still don't see why she had to go through the Range Ask: don't you have a transfer to diamonds?

The 2♠ bid is used in two situations. Either a takeout into one of the minors or invitational to 3NT. If she is invitational, she passes my 2NT=min response, or bids 3NT over my 3♣. If she is weak with a long minor, she passes or corrects. We play a 2NT response to a 1NT opening as 5-5 in the minors. No we don't play transfers in all four suits.

Leaving them in 3♠ would have given us an average plus.

[AL78]

Douglas43, on 2020-December-11, 10:21, said:

It is a disadvantage of this transfer method that you cannot be sure which suit partner has and thus how high to compete. Having said that I use it with a weak NT and at least with that a double such as yours is take-out (not a penalty double with a 12-14 opener). Is there a bid available for a take-out? 3NT for example?

We haven't discussed what to do if opponents bid over the 2♠ enquiry or responses. There is a case in the situation here that partner's pass of 3♠ clearly shows a weak hand with a long minor, so 3NT by me cannot be to play, and it could be used holding support for either minor to say "bid your minor".

[smerriman]

AL78, on 2020-December-11, 12:24, said:

There is a case in the situation here that partner's pass of 3♠ clearly shows a weak hand with a long minor, so 3NT by me cannot be to play, and it could be used holding support for either minor to say "bid your minor".

Wouldn't 4♣ be unambiguously "bid your minor" (pass/correct)? A 1NT opener can't be suggesting playing in a self supporting club suit.

(Not saying whether that's the right bid or not, but it seems unnecessary to use 3NT for it).

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2020-December-11, 12:14, said:

The 2♠ bid is used in two situations. Either a takeout into one of the minors or invitational to 3NT. If she is invitational, she passes my 2NT=min response, or bids 3NT over my 3♣. If she is weak with a long minor, she passes or corrects. We play a 2NT response to a 1NT opening as 5-5 in the minors. No we don't play transfers in all four suits.

ACOL has certainly taken a strange jump from natural to weird stuff... "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore"
Having a dangerous propensity to experiment I sympathise, but I still assign 3♣/♦ to 5-5 minors, arguably one too many.
Do you have neither available?
Transfers to minors occasionally work wonders and rarely do damage if both remember the agreements.

[DavidKok]

pescetom, on 2020-December-11, 14:09, said:

ACOL has certainly taken a strange jump from natural to weird stuff... "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore"
Having a dangerous propensity to experiment I sympathise, but I still assign 3♣/♦ to 5-5 minors, arguably one too many.
Do you have neither available?
Transfers to minors occasionally work wonders and rarely do damage if both remember the agreements.

I personally play 4-way transfers, but the case for the 2-way (3-way?) 2♠ bid is that on the normal auctions 1NT-2NT(inv); 3NT, or its modern sibling 1NT-2♣; 2X-2NT(inv, doesn't necessarily promise a major); 3NT the defenders know far too much about the combined assets of the hands. 1NT-2♠(inv without a major, or a long minor suit, or some very strong hands); 3♣(max)-3NT can be bid both on strength but also on questionable hands with a minor suit that might well produce tricks, and it is not clear whether to go for a passive or an active lead. It's not so much the long minor suit hands that are the problem, but the invitational raises.

One interesting alternative is to ignore invitational hands entirely, simply jumping to game or passing. This frees up the sequence used for invitational raises for some slammish hands without costing much in practice.

[smerriman]

DavidKok, on 2020-December-11, 15:19, said:

I personally play 4-way transfers, but the case for the 2-way (3-way?) 2♠ bid is that on the normal auctions 1NT-2NT(inv); 3NT, or its modern sibling 1NT-2♣; 2X-2NT(inv, doesn't necessarily promise a major); 3NT the defenders know far too much about the combined assets of the hands. 1NT-2♠(inv without a major, or a long minor suit, or some very strong hands); 3♣(max)-3NT can be bid both on strength but also on questionable hands with a minor suit that might well produce tricks, and it is not clear whether to go for a passive or an active lead. It's not so much the long minor suit hands that are the problem, but the invitational raises.

I think when pescetom mentioned weird stuff, he was referring to 2♠ as a 3-way bid, as opposed to 2-way (at least, that's why I find it very weird as well). 2♠ as range ask or clubs seems to be most recommended method currently - had never heard of giving up the diamond transfer to make it a 3 way bid before, which does seem to lead to some difficulties.

[AL78]

pescetom, on 2020-December-11, 14:09, said:

ACOL has certainly taken a strange jump from natural to weird stuff... "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore"
Having a dangerous propensity to experiment I sympathise, but I still assign 3♣/♦ to 5-5 minors, arguably one too many.
Do you have neither available?
Transfers to minors occasionally work wonders and rarely do damage if both remember the agreements.

I don't play Acol with this partner, we play 5 card majors, strong NT, and a few bits and bobs like 1M - 3M is pre-emptive, invitational hands go through 3♣ and 3♦ (what she calls Bergen raises). I like the idea of playing a 3♣ response as 5-5 in minors and playing 4 suit transfers to deal with the long minor hands, I'll suggest it to her.

[AL78]

Had a chat with partner this morning. She doesn't want to play four suit transfers because she is concerned it will be too much strain on her memory. We have agreed that in future, if she bids 2♠ and the opponents come in before I have had a chance to find out her minor suit and I want to compete in her minor, double by me says please bid your minor.

[nige1]

AL78' 2♠ asks me to bid 2NT with a minimum, or 3♣ with a maximum, and I judged the hand to be closer to maximum. When South comes winging in with 3♠ I feel obligated to double on principle, even though I know partner is trying to take out into a long minor (unfortunately I don't know which one, otherwise I would support it). Unfortunately thanks to the double fit the contract is rock solid.South said "I had a brain freeze" in response to the enquiry from North as to why she didn't bid Landy.At least we finished a respectable score of just over 57% this time.'
++++++++++++++++++++
I agree that East's double should be T/O.

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[pescetom]

AL78, on 2020-December-12, 08:02, said:

Had a chat with partner this morning. She doesn't want to play four suit transfers because she is concerned it will be too much strain on her memory. We have agreed that in future, if she bids 2♠ and the opponents come in before I have had a chance to find out her minor suit and I want to compete in her minor, double by me says please bid your minor.

Partners are partners and must be respected, but often not permanent or the only one. Hope you get another opportunity to try four way transfers plus 3♣ as 5-5 minors, it works very nicely once 2♠ is also range ask.