[msheald]

Hello! Just curious. On occasion, I open 1 Club with 3 clubs and then GIB passes because it has 5 points or less. Sometimes with only one club. In these cases, we miss playing in whatever GIB's long suit was.

Is there a way to avoid this? Thank you and best regards.

Mike

https://tinyurl.com/2yn2g5z9

[pilowsky]

If it's a best hand game, 1NT with 13-17 bal. is often a winning strategy.

[pescetom]

One way to minimize the risk is to play a 2M response as 5 card in a very weak hand... but GiB doesn't play that.

Another favourite is to lean forwards eagerly after opening a hand that can't stand pass

Just accept the consequences of passing out, be they good or bad. In a well tuned system it should be 50%.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,


it is the system bid.

If you have 12-13, you could go with pass, given that it is a best hand, and due to this
game is unlikely.
You could also upgrade to 1NT, but the 4333 is not really a guide to do it, and you will
quite often end up in 3NT -?.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[smerriman]

I have no issue playing in 1♣ here compared to potential alternatives that may have arisen.

Note that the opponents can actually make 3NT.. while that's not realistic, them finding 3♦ is more likely, which is only a 1 IMP difference from what you got.

OK, maybe you're playing matchpoints, but now also consider all of the times you didn't have a minimum with a 3 card suit, and you jump / reverse / etc expecting more from partner and end up too high.. you have to take all these into account when deciding whether you really want a bid here.

[thepossum]

I posted a similar thread recently in NB but that was a mistake because apparently I have to bid 1club come what may because it is the system - if I were an NB I guess don't teach bad habits like using your brain and being flexible - like I suggested being flexible over NT ranges and 4/5 card majors in such situations but was told that was wrong. In openers defence you would hope that an intelligent responder would try running to spades

Maybe you need to be grateful you didn't bid 1D

[helene_t]

GIB plays as GIB plays, you can't do much about that. A wider ranging 1NT opening as Pilowsky suggests might be a good idea. I am not convinced, though. Opening 1NT with most 14-counts to compensate for GIB's underbidding is probably fine, but 13 leads to too many bad 3NT contracts, I think.

With a balanced 12-14 it's not a big deal since if opps let you play 1♣ when they hold the majority of the points it's often not great for them, even if 1♣ is a pathetic contract. It's more the 18-19 hands that are a problem. With a human partner you could play Dutch Doubleton, or a Mexican 2♦ opening.

[pilowsky]

It might make an interesting simulation.
Constraints would include:

Best hand with 12/13/14 and a 4423 distribution

Then questions might include:
that partner has a 5CM or a 6Cm and less than 8 HCP
etc etc.


One thing's for sure, you won't be left in 1♣.

[pescetom]

pilowsky, on 2023-July-24, 06:04, said:

It might make an interesting simulation.
Constraints would include:

Best hand with 12/13/14 and a 4423 distribution

Then questions might include:
that partner has a 5CM or a 6Cm and less than 8 HCP
etc etc.


One thing's for sure, you won't be left in 1♣.

I think the simulation would show that 2 of responder's suit is a better contract at MP, which is why I play this jump as very weak. But GiB uses it to show some strong hand type so that is excluded.

Thepossum's idea of stretching to respond at 1 level in misfit is poor because you don't want to remain unlimited with such a weak hand: as helene_t points out, the real problem is when opener has 18-19 balanced and responder is borderline or worse.

[mycroft]

For decades, people have said "you can't pass 1♣, what if I'm short?" I'm reminded of the quote from the Berkowitz and Manley book, where, back in the spoken bidding days:

• "One club" was a good opener with a real club suit;
  
• "a club" was short;
  
• "I'll start with a club" was 100% forcing, partner, I have a good hand.

We don't do that any more, and partners will pass potentially short minor openings with a bad hand. If they don't, the next question is "how do I stop partner from jumping to game/2NT when I was just saving them from 1♣?"

Now, best hand changes the analysis, and possibly you don't want to open when the hands are 13-12-12-3 or 12-12-12-4, or even on hands where it's likely to be a partscore, because defending with GIB is always bad. But remember, *GIB* doesn't know it's "best hand".

But, even though experts will claim to "never respond to an opener with fewer than zero HCP", they know how to handle that, and they accept the times it's wrong anyway; and they still pass "potentially short" 1♣ openers too.