[Cyberyeti]

Dealer E

You are not playing a 2 suited opener for hearts and clubs.

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Any suggestions ? Assume initially opps will be silent if E passes.

[pescetom]

[Deleted an auction based upon a jump rebid by opener, which is not logical with this hand]

[akwoo]

1D - 1H
1S - 2D (1S promises unbalanced hand; 2D is natural nonforcing)
2N - 3N

Responder could try 3C at his third turn, but I don't think that leads to anywhere other than 3N either.

[mikeh]

The start is pretty obvious: P 1D 1H 1S

The idea of jumpshifting this misfitting, soft 17 count to 2S leaves me wondering whether I’ve slipped into an alternate dimension.

Surely 2S is game force. If not, how on earth does west bid a real 1D 2S hand, such as AQxx Kx AKQxxx x hand?

Wtf is partner supposed to do over the ultra weak 2S bid? Say Qxx KJxxx xx xxx? Btw, with that hand I’d happily pass a 1S rebid (as with akwoo, in my partnerships 1S promises an unbalanced hand, but why cant it be 4-1-4-4?)

In my main partnership, P 1D 1H 1S and now a very tough call. Opposite 4=1=5=3 or 4=1=4=4 we want to play in clubs but we can’t get there from here, even by a passed hand…2C would be a puppet to 2D, to play or make an invitational bid.

At imps I’d invite but at mps I’m not jeopardize the probable plus in 2D. At imps, 2C forcing 2D then either 3C (if feeling very lucky) or 3D

If I had to bid 2D in an effort to play there, opener has his own tough call, since he hasn’t shown this ‘17’ count. Of course, it’s not really worth 17. I have an odd approach to matchpoints, seemingly not popular on BBF….I like plus scores and think that stretching for thin games on misfit hands is nuts. However, maybe it’s because I aim my game at playing against strong opps….I played club bridge today and I suspect that many of my opps would let me get away with a mis/overbid.after all, this is a club where the opps played 2Hx with that dubious trump holding of 32 opposite Q108…fortunately for them (not really!) we couldn’t stop them from scoring an ace and a trump trick…1700 against our 450…in 4H

Bidding 2N on the well known club stopper of Jxx opposite what could be a weak hand….say xxx QJxxx xxx Kx seems utterly silly to me.

[DavidKok]

I would be tempted to open the East hand 1♥, mostly because I'd anticipate bidding problems if I do not. But I don't mind starting with a pass for the sake of argument.

The auction would then start
P;
1♦-1♥;
1♠-?

as others mentioned. Now East has a tough call. I don't play XYZ here - not just because we are a passed hand but also because 4SGF is, in my opinion, more effective as well as easier on this auction. All of 2♣, 2♦, 2NT and 3♦ (invitational) are reasonable - we have a good hand and I'd rule out 2♦, but 2♣ is pushy and does not show clubs. In short: I don't have a good bid for this hand. 3♦ shares my support and values but conceals the amazing club suit and also leaves no room for partner to explore 3NT, which is extra important as it is very likely from our perspective that West does not have a club stopper. 2NT shares our clubs and general values but I dislike bidding this with a void, and also it does not inform partner that our hand is very suitable to be dummy in diamonds. 2♣ could be a nice solution but I don't have agreements about this bid - for me it just shows values and no other bid, typically 3=5=2=3 with unsuitable clubs for 2NT.
So I guess I'll bid 2NT. Show the club values and general strength of the hand, and leave space for partner to make a move in case diamonds are in the picture.

I think opener will bid a dull 3NT over that, and now I have to pray I can make something of the clubs before the opponents can make something of the spades. I don't even know what contract I want to be in with 26 cards visible - 5♦ looks better than 3NT, but not by much. And if the clubs run 6♦ good, but I'm never getting there (maybe after opening the East hand?).

[Cyberyeti]

Our auction (Acol) started 1♥-2♦ (1♥ is 5 cards unless 15+ 3433/44(32)). Now what does E do - 2♥ or 3♦ ? Does 2♦ absolutely guarantee 5 ?

3N shouldn't make as the cards lie, 5♣ should, 5♦ can but in practice won't if they find the right lead.

[DavidKok]

It is quite popular in 2/1 GF for the sequence 1♥-2♦; 3♣ to promise extra high card points since it takes up so much space. In Acol where 2♦ was 10+ I imagine this is doubly so, as we might not even have sufficient values for game if opener doesn't have extras. That means you can't show your shape on these sequences, and I think 2♥ is probably systemic, though I'm not sure.
Incidentally I prefer to show shape on 2/1 GF auctions, but this is a minority view.

[Cyberyeti]

 DavidKok, on 2024-April-21, 05:24, said:

It is quite popular in 2/1 GF for the sequence 1♥-2♦; 3♣ to promise extra high card points since it takes up so much space. In Acol where 2♦ was 10+ I imagine this is doubly so, as we might not even have sufficient values for game if opener doesn't have extras. That means you can't show your shape on these sequences, and I think 2♥ is probably systemic, though I'm not sure.
Incidentally I prefer to show shape on 2/1 GF auctions, but this is a minority view.

3♣ isn't in the picture, it's 16+GF, the question is 2♥/3♦

I bid 2♥, partner bid 2♠ and now 2N/3♦ ? 3♣ would be asking for a stop.

[DavidKok]

2NT seems good. 2♠ was forcing to game? We need to tell partner that we have the clubs.

[Cyberyeti]

 DavidKok, on 2024-April-21, 06:19, said:

2NT seems good. 2♠ was forcing to game? We need to tell partner that we have the clubs.

2N wrongsides NT, but does tell partner about the clubs, I thought it was close.

[mikeh]

Test

[mw64ahw]

Playing my esoteric unbalanced ♦ 3+
1♦-1♥ either or both Majors
1♠ 3/4 unlimitted-1N 4/5♥
2N 5m short ♥ 17-18 -3♦ GF Shape? (3♣ would be P/C)
3♠ 4153.
I now have the tricky choice of game contracts or a slam try in either minor likely ending up in 5♣

FWIW 4♣ would be a minor suit slam try with a ♠ void and at least Kxx in each minor.

[shyams]

The East hand is difficult to bid for me (with my 2/1 centered system) and I might easily land up in a silly contract.

The "ideal" (but unlikely to happen) auction:
West - East
..... - Pass
1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♥ (East cannot bid 2♣ because we treat FSF as game forcing)
3♣ - pass/4♣ (Will East really raise to 4♣? I am not sure).
pass (if East bids 4♣)

I feel that East may well find a pass ("it's MPs") over West's 3♣, given the misfit.
If East doesn't want to pass, his bid is 4♣ and I can see West chicken out to play in a rare (4-level) club part score.