Question on 2C opening bids
#1
Posted 2024-August-13, 07:55
If responder bids 2NT to show 8+ points and a balanced hand, then the partnership's no-trump response system is on: Stayman, Jacoby Transfers, etc. Opener must bid accordingly, as if responder is the one who opened no-trumps.
I'm not an experienced play, but why the heck would we ever want the strong 2C opener to transfer? That exposes the strong hand, and lets the opening lead come through it. Sounds crazy to me.
Please enlighten me on this point.
#2
Posted 2024-August-13, 08:36
#1 simplicity, if you play a system after 1NT / 2NT openings, reusing it, reduces memory load, and avoids issues.
2C openings are rare, seq. after a 2C opening will come up seldom.
#2 making the strong hand declarer is only one benefits of playing xfer, and the least relevant, the xfer allowes
the partner of the balanced hand to clarify its shape, 1-suited or 2-suited, giving the bal. hand the best option
to see, if the values fit
#3 If you dont open regular 2C with 2-suited hands, you can make the default rebid basically matadory.
With kind regards
Marlowe
PS: I would open
♠AKQJ987
♥AKT
♦653
♣—
with 1S, not with 2♣, this allowes for easier detection of wasted club values.
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#3
Posted 2024-August-13, 08:48
P_Marlowe, on 2024-August-13, 08:36, said:
#1 simplicity, if you play a system after 1NT / 2NT openings, reusing it, reduces memory load, and avoids issues.
2C openings are rare, seq. after a 2C opening will come up seldom.
#2 making the strong hand declarer is only one benefits of playing xfer, and the least relevant, the xfer allowes
the partner of the balanced hand to clarify its shape, 1-suited or 2-suited, giving the bal. hand the best option
to see, if the values fit
#3 If you dont open regular 2C with 2-suited hands, you can make the default rebid basically matadory.
With kind regards
Marlowe
PS: I would open
♠AKQJ987
♥AKT
♦653
♣
with 1S, not with 2♣, this allowes for easier detection of wasted club values.
The example hand looks slamish and would suit a Namyats 4♦
#4
Posted 2024-August-13, 09:39
There are lots of different structures for responding to 2♣ openings. I think this write-up by Karen Walker is pretty good. https://kwbridge.com/bb/b_2c.htm
#5
Posted 2024-August-13, 09:50
tgphelps, on 2024-August-13, 07:55, said:
If responder bids 2NT to show 8+ points and a balanced hand, then the partnership's no-trump response system is on: Stayman, Jacoby Transfers, etc. Opener must bid accordingly, as if responder is the one who opened no-trumps.
I'm not an experienced play, but why the heck would we ever want the strong 2C opener to transfer? That exposes the strong hand, and lets the opening lead come through it. Sounds crazy to me.
Please enlighten me on this point.
You are simply right, it is crazy.
Quantitative bidding can be done accurately by the responder if you have a sufficiently well defined NT ladder. Responding 2NT as a blunt quantitative 8+ at best wrongsides the right contract and at worst impedes finding it.
I strongly suggest redefining 2NT as some useful or at least memorable artificial bid: I play it as minors 5+5+.
#7
Posted 2024-August-13, 11:12
jdiana, on 2024-August-13, 09:39, said:
There are lots of different structures for responding to 2♣ openings. I think this write-up by Karen Walker is pretty good. https://kwbridge.com/bb/b_2c.htm
We use the 2♣-2N response as positive balanced, but a little better than 8+, as we play it essentially forcing to 4N and slam invitational opposite a balanced 22-23. We then play 2♣-2N-3♣ as stayman.
#9
Posted 2024-August-13, 11:42
Cyberyeti, on 2024-August-13, 11:12, said:
That makes sense. There are certainly other uses for the 2NT response. We play 2♥ as a bust, so we use 2♠ to show a positive heart response and 2NT to show a positive spade response. I just meant that ML hates (as I recall) 2NT to show a balanced 8+ points; that bid DNE for us. We just bid 2♦ with that hand.
#10
Posted 2024-August-13, 13:04
DavidKok, on 2024-August-13, 10:52, said:
If you think my comment (which offered precise arguments) is less than accurate, I would prefer you to confute it rather than merely posturing.
#12
Posted 2024-August-13, 14:59
DavidKok, on 2024-August-13, 14:02, said:
No problem, it's easy to miss a post or misread it. I just thought that to N/B it was unexpected (and therefore doubly important to realize) that a mainstream agreement is actually no good, and I expected you would be in agreement. Of course there are issues about whether and how Responder to 2♣ should indicate a bust, but I think it is clear by now that 2NT = stuff is not the way to go.
#13
Posted 2024-August-13, 17:01
Stephen Tu, on 2024-August-13, 11:30, said:
Borrowing a little bit from the original puppet Stayman, you could play these responses to 3♣
3♦ - No 4 card major
3♥ - 4 spades
3♠ - 4 hearts
3NT - Both majors
This makes the stronger hand declarer for major suit fits.
After a 3♦ response, 2♣ opener can bid 3M as a Smolen type bid.