[harikannan]

Playing MPs, red vs white, partner deals and passes.

My RHO opens weak 2H. I hold:

K7
Q8
A832
AK753

I pass. My LHO jumps to 4H, which is passed around to me.

Should I pass or double?

Thanks.

[Huibertus]

I'd consider it at Imps as the reward can be great and it'll cost limited if it makes.

But in MP's, just why? If it is down you were going to get a good score without the double anyway as they overbid, you're only improving from let's say 70% to 90%. If this is going to make they must have bid normal, you are bound for near 0% with a double, down from a normal say 50% score. Just pass, the potential loss is greater then the potential gain.

[DavidKok]

Why did you pass last round? The goal of competitive auctions is to not take the last guess! You should neither pass nor double, you should not be in this position at all. Bid 3♣ over 2♥.

[harikannan]

I chickened out on 3C overcall because of the vulnerability. After the auction ended, i was tempted to double 4H, lead CA and hope it holds, then shift to SK, if I don't see SA in dummy, then Sx because we may have them two down with not much from partner -- more so because i felt we might have a game if LHO was jamming the auction. I hopefully understand the concept of avoiding last guess now.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2025-October-22, 10:22, said:

Why did you pass last round? The goal of competitive auctions is to not take the last guess! You should neither pass nor double, you should not be in this position at all. Bid 3♣ over 2♥.

I think having passed, you're well placed to double, if you had spades you'd have doubled last time so it's unambiguously minors.

You might need to get 300 against your partscore if opps have overbid

[P_Marlowe]

harikannan, on 2025-October-22, 10:59, said:

I chickened out on 3C overcall because of the vulnerability. After the auction ended, i was tempted to double 4H, lead CA and hope it holds, then shift to SK, if I don't see SA in dummy, then Sx because we may have them two down with not much from partner -- more so because i felt we might have a game if LHO was jamming the auction. I hopefully understand the concept of avoiding last guess now.

#1 you decided to take the low road, which may or may be ok, I guess I would have bid 3C,
but pass is fine, and ask me again at a later time, I may pass
But one thing is clear: I would stick with my first decision not second guess my choices.
Learn to trust your gut feeling.
#2 "Just because LHO jammed the bidding": This does not mean, that he is weak, your hand did not get
any stronger.
The way the auction went, 4H will be a field contract, I dont think 4Hx will.
And it is unlikely, that partner will have a hand to react over 4H after a 3C bid of mine,
so the only loss is, that partner does not know anything about my hand ..., but this wont matter most
of the time either.

[mikeh]

Partner is a passed hand so the chances of our having a game are slim. And we can’t get to what might have been a making partscore, so forget about that option.

Years ago, in a major event, against a strong pro team, we had this very auction. My partner doubled and the pro on my right, behind screens, asked me what the double meant. I replied: you’re nort making this. As it happened partner had basically the AKJ of hearts and the diamond Queen. Declarer could have escaped for 500 but misread everything possible and went 1100.

So double is penalty and I fail to see why you are comfortable doubling. Perhaps more importantly, I definitely don’t think that the field would double.

Which means that if they make doubled, you’re getting a zero or close to it. F they fail, undoubled, you’re probably…not certainly…getting average plus.

So double is an attempt to turn an average plus into a near top, at a significant risk of turning an average (when most bid the making 4H) into a zero.

Btw, I strongly disagree with overcalling 3C. I’d be very happy partner was a passed hand…this is a truly horrible problem were partner unlimited.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2025-October-22, 16:09, said:

Partner is a passed hand so the chances of our having a game are slim. And we can’t get to what might have been a making partscore, so forget about that option.

This to some extent depends what you open, and not just your 1 bids. There are some hands that might be opened a nat weak 2♦ that make game, do you play one ? and would you open it on Kxxxxx ? Is your weak 2♠ 5 or 6 cards minimum ?

Quote

So double is an attempt to turn an average plus into a near top, at a significant risk of turning an average (when most bid the making 4H) into a zero.

Btw, I strongly disagree with overcalling 3C. I’d be very happy partner was a passed hand…this is a truly horrible problem were partner unlimited.

Why do you think it's ave+ ?

They're making 2♥ and raiser is taking advantage of the vul to stop your pd finding a double/2♠ overcall, you're making 4m or 3♠ with partner having 5, you have to double.

I actually feel most in the field will overcall 3♣ particularly in an event with less than WC players so you're against the field already.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-October-23, 05:10, said:

This to some extent depends what you open, and not just your 1 bids. There are some hands that might be opened a nat weak 2♦ that make game, do you play one ? and would you open it on Kxxxxx ? Is your weak 2♠ 5 or 6 cards minimum ?



Why do you think it's ave+ ?

They're making 2♥ and raiser is taking advantage of the vul to stop your pd finding a double/2♠ overcall, you're making 4m or 3♠ with partner having 5, you have to double.

I actually feel most in the field will overcall 3♣ particularly in an event with less than WC players so you're against the field already.

lol

Yes, partner could have a hand on which we can make something. When I say chances of game are slim, I as not saying they were non existent.

As for going with the field, you gave me a good laugh.

Overcalling 3C could obviously work. I think it’s a bad bid but I recognize that bad players make bad bids…it’s part of what makes them bad players…it’s a tautology.

I think 3C to be bad bridge. Am I claiming that no good player would bid 3C? No. But I do think that most good players would pass. So…I’ll try to consistently bid as if I were a good player rather than as if I were a bad player. If that means I’m anti-field in a weak field, good. I’ll get some bad boards since bad bridge wins sometimes. Which is a good thing…if bad bridge never won, most of us would quit. But I’ll get more good boards than bad because, unless I’m playing on the last day of a National Pair game…Blue Ribbon or Life Master Pairs for example….I’m better than the field. Wtf would I give up the edge that I worked very hard to attain by deliberately choosing what I think of a losing approach?

If, at the end of the day, I find out that the better players in the field bid 3C and it worked, I’d take another look to see whether I’m being too conservative, which is a tendency of mine.

[Cyberyeti]

Mike, what I was trying to say is it's much safer to pass if you know partner won't have any 5-4-3-1 10 count or 4-4 majors (3-9) or reasonable 5 card spade suit in a weak hand, because he'd have opened any of those (although he might have a hand with 6 diamonds).

If you open conservatively and partner might have a lot of 11s, or your weak 2s need to be 6 card suits it's a lot less safe.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-October-23, 08:10, said:

Mike, what I was trying to say is it's much safer to pass if you know partner won't have any 5-4-3-1 10 count or 4-4 majors (3-9) or reasonable 5 card spade suit in a weak hand, because he'd have opened any of those (although he might have a hand with 6 diamonds).

If you open conservatively and partner might have a lot of 11s, or your weak 2s need to be 6 card suits it's a lot less safe.

So why the reference to the field? And since when did I say that it was safe to pass? Over 2H we have two choices, neither of which are safe. The fact that, imo, the risks associated with 3C exceed those associated with passing isn’t remotely the same as saying that pass is risk free.

[Cyberyeti]

You didn't say it was safe, I didn't say either action was safe, but I think what you open on changes the probabilities