[Flame]

What is your system in 2/1 action ?
what is 1S-2C-2NT ?
does 1S-2C-2S ? promiss 6 cards ?
is 1S-2C-2D ? limited ?
1S-2C-3D ? splinter ?
1S-2C-3C show extra ?
does it change over 1H opening ?

[Gerben42]

What is your system in 2/1 action ?
what is 1S-2C-2NT ?

Balanced with stoppers, not minimum.

does 1S-2C-2S ? promiss 6 cards ?

No, catch-all including most minimum hands.

is 1S-2C-2D ? limited ?

Unlimited.

1S-2C-3D ? splinter ?

Yes.

1S-2C-3C show extra ?

Shows extra's, otherwise bid 2S first.

does it change over 1H opening ?

No.

Gerben

[whereagles]

Well, you'll have to browse through 200 opinions, but here it goes. My style is somewhat off-center, though.

1. What is your system in 2/1 action ?
The philosophy is that opener and resp try to limit the hand as soon as possible. Picture bids and frivolous 3NT are used. Fast arrival does NOT apply.

2. what is 1S-2C-2NT ?
Bal 12-14 or 18-19.

3. does 1S-2C-2S ? promiss 6 cards ?
No. It's 5+ cards and 11-14, or 15-17 and 6-card bad suit.

4. is 1S-2C-2D ? limited ?
Yes. It is 11-17

5. 1S-2C-3D ? splinter ?
No. Natural, 5-4 and 18-20

6. 1S-2C-3C show extra ?
Yes, 15-20. With 11-14 rebid 2M and support later.

7. does it change over 1H opening ?
No.

[cherdano]

For me it is the same as Gerben, except 1S-2C-2NT does not show extras (but no concern about stoppers in the unbid suits). 2S is the catch-all, although less so after 1S-2C then after 1S-2H.

Arend

[Chamaco]

Flame, on Sep 1 2005, 09:45 AM, said:

 what is 1S-2C-2NT ?

In standard it should be a smibalanced with stoppers.
I play different:
-2NT shows 64 with reverse strength, either in hcp (say, 16+) or distribution(5-5.5 losers, in this case hcp might be 12-15 or so).
The 4 bagger is unspecified, 3C asks which suit.

The semibalanced hand would just rebid the suit, waiting.

Quote

does 1S-2C-2S ? promiss 6 cards  ?

Some people promise 6+ cards, but many (including me) follow Mike Lawrence style, where 2M rebid is just waiting, and can still have extras,

Quote

is 1S-2C-2D ? limited ?
1S-2C-3D ? splinter ?

I play that a jump to 3 from opener (e.g 1S-2C-3D ) is natural, 55 or better, and shows good suits.
It can have extras in hcp (16+), or distribution (e.g. 5-5.5 losers, even if hcp are, say 12-15).

So, 1S-2C-2D is natural, but denies a good 5 card suit in diamonds (can be any 4 bagger or bad 5 card suit).
It can still have extras, but no special features in terms of honor concentration or shape.

Quote

1S-2C-3C show extra ?

The first thing to define is whether 2C shows 5+ clubs or only 4.
Mike Lawrence and Gitelman strongly advocate the use of 2/1 showing 5+ cards in the suit.
The requirements for the raise depend on this issue.
(BTW, I play 2C as showing EITHER a balanced GF OR 5+ clubs; 1M:2D would be always 5+ cards).

In any case, the raise of pard's minor shows a non-minimum hand, but not necessarily a reverse, and good support (e.g. some honors or extra length)

Quote

does it change over 1H opening ?

More or less the above holds true also after 1H opener.
If you wish to use 1S:2m:2NT as showing a good 64, you MIGHT consider using

1H:2m:2S = good 64 (unspecified 4 bagger, 2NT asks)
1H:2m:2NT = spades

[FrancesHinden]

Flame, on Sep 1 2005, 04:45 AM, said:

What is your system in 2/1 action ?

Well, you asked:

what is 1S-2C-2NT ?
- this one shows 15-19 5332 (in that order) but it depends on the exact opening & response

does 1S-2C-2S ? promiss 6 cards ?
- yes

is 1S-2C-2D ? limited ?
- artificial, waiting: denies 6+ spades, 4+ clubs, 4+ hearts. 2H by responder is an artificial game force with some further artificial responses; 2S shows 3-card support; 2NT shows tenaces; 3C/3D show serious single/2-suiters

1S-2C-3D ? splinter ?
- yes

1S-2C-3C show extra ?
- no, but usually has 4-card support (OK, I nearly always have 4, my partner sometimes has 3)

does it change over 1H opening ?
- the amount of space we have for the waiting bid and game forcing relay affect other meanings, e.g.

1H - 2C - 2D waiting, then 2H is the relay while 2NT shows 3 hearts
1H - 2D - 2H waiting, 2NT shows 6 hearts

[Flame]

just few more questions, does support promiss 4 cards or only 3+ ? same question over 1S-2H.
Also the 2nt buther me, like most i open 1nt on 5332 15-17, so whats the point in playing 2nt as balance non minimum ? does it show 18-19 ? and if its non minimum how can i have non minimum with no other call after 2c (make more sense over 2d and 2h)
Anyway i think this 2nt isnt that well used, and maybe the simplest way playing it balance 12-14 or 18-19 is better. I also think maybe 2nt could be use to show support, maybe 2nt show 3 card support and 3X= 4 card support both showing extra. chamaco's alternative is interesting too.

[FrancesHinden]

Chamaco, on Sep 1 2005, 05:31 AM, said:

The first thing to define is whether 2C shows 5+ clubs or only 4.
Mike Lawrence and Gitelman strongly advocate the use of 2/1 showing 5+ cards in the suit.
The requirements for the raise depend on this issue.

In which case you need to go back a stage further. If you wish to use a 2/1 to promise 5+ cards in the suit, you need to play a forcing 1NT response (not semi-forcing as is frequently played) or have some other way of showing a balanced FG hand.

[FrancesHinden]

Flame, on Sep 1 2005, 06:11 AM, said:

Also the 2nt buther me, like most i open 1nt on 5332 15-17, so whats the point in playing 2nt as balance non minimum ? does it show 18-19 ? and if its non minimum how can i have non minimum with no other call after 2c (make more sense over 2d and 2h)

"Most" is a very strong statement and also I think untrue.

Anyway, you asked what other people played. I told you what I play. I usually don't have a five-card major in my opening 1NT bid, so I have included such hands in my 2/1 sequences.

[david_c]

Of the natural methods, I prefer Gerben's scheme.

If you don't like using 2NT as a natural bid showing extras, then you're better off using it to show a 6-card major with extra strength. There's a good case for doing this even if you might open 1M with 5-3-3-2s.

But in my opinion, switching to completely artificial methods is worth the effort. It takes a lot of work to begin with, and is only suitable for regular partnerships, but I've found that the improvements you get are much more significant than, say, tinkering with your responses to 1NT.

[mr1303]

1S 2C 2NT

Typically 14-14 balanced with at least 2 card support for clubs. I will have all suits stopped, however. With a suit unstopped (Qxx is a min stopper) rebid 2S.

Which answers 2. 1S 2C 2S doesn't promise 6 spades.

1S 2C 2D might have a 19 count. 1S 2C 3D would be a splinter, so with strong 5341 hands, I have no alternative than 2D.

1S 2C 3C shows either a good hand or good support for clubs. Minimum hands with only 3 card support for clubs should rebid 2S.

And nothing changes after 1H.

[helene_t]

what is 1S-2C-2NT ?
12-14 or 18-19 bal
does 1S-2C-2S ? promiss 6 cards ?
Yes, in general you can also rebid a 5-card with a hand too weak to reverse but in this particular case it will never be necesary.
is 1S-2C-2D limited ?
No.
1S-2C-3D ? splinter ?
No
1S-2C-3C show extra ?
No, but I'm probably wrong, somthing I need to think about. In that case 2♠ could be a 5-card.
does it change over 1H opening ?
Yes, unless we play F.... we must have some rebid for the minimal hands with 4♠5♥.

[inquiry]

Flame, on Sep 1 2005, 05:45 AM, said:

What is your system in 2/1 action ?

Quote

what is 1S-2C-2NT ?

My 2♣ is ARTIFICIAL, but my 2NT rebid is still BAL (17)18-19, and is game force.

WHEN not playing 2♣ as artificial 2NT still shows extra values, I open 1NT with five card majors balanced...

Quote

does 1S-2C-2S ? promiss 6 cards  ?

My 2♣ is ARTIFICIAL, my 2♠ rebid says I have a very minimium opening hand, and is not FORCING should 2♣ not be "real" 2/1 GF. If responder rebids anything it is GAME FORCE.

WHEN not playing 2♣ as artificial, 2♠ promises six cards, and may, or may not have extra playing stregnth

Quote

is 1S-2C-2D ? limited ?

My 2♣ is ARTIFICIAL, 2♦ here shows better than minimum hand, and DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING about diamonds. It is forcing to at least 3♠.

WHEN not playing 2♣ as artificial, 2♦ generally is natural but maybe only three cards or a diamond stopper. This is the common frequent rebid with BAL 11-13 and five card spade suit.

Quote

1S-2C-3D ? splinter ?

My 2♣ is ARTIFICIAL, 3♦ shows GF hand with 5-5 or better in S and D.

WHEN not playing 2♣ as artificial, 3♦ is splinter, without control in hearts.

Quote

1S-2C-3C show extra ?

My 2♣ is ARTIFICIAL, so 3♣ shows same type of hand as 2♦ above with clubs being five cards or longer.

WHEN not playing 2♣ as artificial 3♣ shows "extra values" in the form of hcp or distributional fit with ♣.

Quote

does it change over 1H opening ?

No.

[Chamaco]

Quote

Chamaco, on Sep 1 2005, 05:31 AM, said:

The first thing to define is whether 2C shows 5+ clubs or only 4.
Mike Lawrence and Gitelman strongly advocate the use of 2/1 showing 5+ cards in the suit.
The requirements for the raise depend on this issue.

In which case you need to go back a stage further. If you wish to use a 2/1 to promise 5+ cards in the suit, you need to play a forcing 1NT response(not semi-forcing as is frequently played or have some other way of showing a balanced FG hand.

Some ways to bid balanced GF hands while still keeping semiforcing 1NT are:

a. natural 1M:2NT response à la Lawrence/Gitelman

b. 1M:2C = 2-way = either balanced GF OR 5+ clubs (2D relay can then ask to clarify)

c. Ben's (Inquiry) 1M:2C, "unpassed hand Drury"

[awm]

Playing precision+light openings with Sam:

1♠-2♣ is natural, 4+ clubs, 13+ points (can be light with shape), not necessarily GF
1♠-2♣-2♠ shows 5+♠, 4+♣, and 8-11 hcp not forcing
1♠-2♣-2NT shows 6+♠ and game forcing values
1♠-2♣-2♦ shows 5+♠/4+♦ forcing one round, not specific about strength
1♠-2♣-3♣ shows 3+♣ (3 only if 5332 shape) and game forcing values
1♠-2♣-3♦ is a splinter with 4+♣ (game forcing values)
1♠-3♣ is a balanced limit raise of spades (or a bit better than a limit raise)

Playing modified standard (sounder openings) with Elianna:

1♠-2♣ is natural, 4+ clubs, 11+ points (can be light with shape), not necessarily GF
1♠-2♣-2♠ shows 6+♠ forcing to game (so a bit extra)
1♠-2♣-2NT shows a balanced hand, forcing to game
1♠-2♣-2♦ shows either exactly 4♦, or any minimum opening without 4♥
1♠-2♣-3♣ is a game forcing raise
1♠-2♣-3♦ shows 5+♠/5+♦ and more than a minimum (game forcing)
1♠-3♣ is game forcing with 6+ good clubs and no real interest in any other suit

In both cases sequences over 1♥-2♣ are roughly the same.

[Chamaco]

Quote

just few more questions, does support promiss 4 cards or only 3+ ? same question over 1S-2H.

1M:2m:3m shows GOOD support for the minor. The length of this support depends on how many cards the 2/1 response guarantees.
If 1M:2m guarantees 5+, the raise can be made on 3 cards of decent quality, say HHx, or HTx or, 4 small cards.
If 1M:2m guarantees only 4+, the raise should ideally be made on 4 cards or occasionally a GREAT 3 card support.

Quote

Also the 2nt buther me, like most i open 1nt on 5332 15-17, so whats the point in playing 2nt as balance non minimum ? does it show 18-19 ?
..........

Anyway i think this 2nt isnt that well used, and maybe the simplest way playing it balance 12-14 or 18-19 is better.

Yes, it usually shows 12-14 OR 18-19.
But I agree it's a wasted bid: those hands can easily make a waiting bid by rebidding the major (or whatever is your waiting bid).
In my opinion, the 2NT rebid is best used to show distributional features.

[Fluffy]

1♠-2♣
2♦

this is either nat, or balanced 12-15

1♠-2♣
2♠

this shows 6+ cards.

1♠-2♣
2NT

this is balanced 15-19

1♠-2♣
3♣

4 ♣s 11-24


1♠-2♣
3♦

5-5 strong

Does it change after 1♥ opening?

NO. But it chances a lot after 2♦ response.

[Fluffy]

Wow Frances, we seem to be playing almost the same structure .

The 2♦ waiting (weak bal or nat we say, not much difference) was somethign I developed by myself, then found many pairs were already playing something similar. Like a flashback, ,I also invented weak 2's in 1995 , sadly they were also invented very very long before, lol.