[Al_U_Card]

If 1M-3NT is used as the 4M333 forcing raise, could the following bids be used for balanced (4432) forcing raises?

1H-3S (balanced forcing raise)
1S-3H (balanced forcing raise)

with 1H-2NT-3?-3S showing a singleton spade.

Then 3NT by opener could be asking for controls (or as Justin suggests, a desire to play in 3NT.... )

[mike777]

Al_U_Card, on Sep 9 2005, 01:59 PM, said:

If 1M-3NT is used as the 4M333 forcing raise, could the following bids be used for balanced (4432) forcing raises?

1H-3S (balanced forcing raise)
1S-3H (balanced forcing raise)

with 1H-2NT-3?-3S showing a singleton spade.

Then 3NT by opener could be asking for controls (or as Justin suggests, a desire to play in 3NT.... )

Along the same theme here is another viewpoint.

1MAJOR=3NT=14-16, extremely balanced, 4333 solid stoppers in unbid suit, opener is encouraged to pass if she thinks it is right.

1MAJOR=4C=17+ and 4333

MAJOR =4D=5 trumps and only one outside ACE. Same as raising to 4 except you have 1 to 1.5 outside tricks. A reason to do this is to give partner a lot of information in case she needs to make some high level decision.

Of course 2nt=stronger raises that may have shortness.

1H=2S=stiff somewhere, 2nt asks.
1H=3S=void somewhere, 3nt asks
1S=3H=stiff or void somewhere, 3S asks. Then 3nt=void and 4c asks where? Direct 4 level rebid is a stiff.

[SoTired]

I like 2-tiered splinters over 1M, so I can't use those bids:

1H 3S or 1S 3H = 10-12 anonymous splinter
....1H 3S 3N asks where
........4C/4D = c/d splinter
........4H = spade splinter
....1S 3H 3S asks where
........3N = void
............4C = where
................4D/4H = d/h void
................4S = c void
........4C/4D/4H = c/d/h singleton

1H 3N/4C/4D = 13-15 splinter in s/c/d
1S 4C/4D/4H = 13-15 splinter in c/d/h
The 2-tiered splinter gives us better info for slam. Since the weaker one is anonymous, it does not help the opening leader when no slam is possible and opener rebids 4M.

I still play 1S 3N = 3-card support, bal 13-15, no 5-card suit, but have lost the 1H 3N bid to the splinter.

[Al_U_Card]

Jlall, on Sep 11 2005, 01:26 AM, said:

They could, but it uses up a lot of room. Making a 2/1 followed by supporting, or going back to oldschool style of 1M-2N=natural forcing balanced seems more efficient.

I was just thinking about the use of idle bids, especially for those hands where you 2/1 on the 4 card suit and then raise with 4 but could be showing 5+ and 3 only...

[POJC]

I prefer (no 2/1):
Splinter with 9-11 (12 Bad) with more use 2NT. It's important to limit splinter strength or it's to difficult in further biding.

Direct splinter=Void
Indirect=single

1H-3S=indirect, 3NT asks. (Void with spades=3NT)
1H-3NT/4m=void

1S-3NT=indirect, 4C asks.
1S-4x=void