[ewj]

Scoring: IMP

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You're playing very good players in a Swiss Teams competition, and you pass as dealer. LHO opens 1D playing SAYC style and partner makes a take out double.
RHO then bids 2H which is a fit showing jump and it's your call.

[Free]

The auction ain't over after we bid 3♣, because the auction is forcing for opponents until 3♦. That's why I'm in the 3♣-camp.

[MFA]

Yep. 3♣ now, 4♠ later.

[kenrexford]

I want terribly for a person who has passed initially, heard a takeout double from partner, and then a fit-jump, to be able to define:

3♦
3♥
3NT
4♦
4♥

As various black-suit two-suiters.

I want to be able to define length/preference, and possibly strength, and possibly even shortness. For that matter, offensive-v-defensive.

But, I have no idea what nuance each has or should have.

So, I suppose I also bid 3♣. If the other five calls actually have meaning along the lines I want them to have, then 3♣ also miserably misdescribes my hand, probably. Robson-Segal probably have discussed this...

This sucks.

Any thoughts on this from anyone?

[whereagles]

kenrexford, on Dec 31 2006, 02:06 AM, said:

Any thoughts on this from anyone?

I play:

3♦ = 44 majors inv
3♥ = nat
3NT = AKQxxx of clubs and didn't feel like opening 3♣
4♦ = 55 majors
4♥ = nat

so no black 2 suiter for me. As it is, I'd bid 2♠ or 3♣ depending on ELC or not.

[Adebisi]

2♠.After 3♣ u may miss 4-4 ♠fit.

[Free]

Adebisi, on Dec 31 2006, 09:59 AM, said:

2♠.After 3♣ u may miss 4-4 ♠fit.

Why?

[kenrexford]

whereagles, on Dec 31 2006, 01:59 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Dec 31 2006, 02:06 AM, said:

Any thoughts on this from anyone?

I play:

3♦ = 44 majors inv
3♥ = nat
3NT = AKQxxx of clubs and didn't feel like opening 3♣
4♦ = 55 majors
4♥ = nat

so no black 2 suiter for me. As it is, I'd bid 2♠ or 3♣ depending on ELC or not.

I'm not sure that I would dedicate four of these calls to show holdings in a suit RHO presumably has just shown to be five long, when X works for that. Nor do I like the idea of a call that shows a holding in clubs that would have merited an opening initially, without a stop in this presumed suit from RHO.

Any other thoughts?

[mr1303]

I wish to point out that partner doesn't have his double here....

I agree with 3C and then spades later on, probably at the 4 level opposite a partner known to be sane.

[mcphee]

Interesting hand, this fit showing jump may be the warning I need to avoid playing 4S. Perhaps I am going to lose a trump if the opening hand holds only 2H, a very strong possibility. It is beginning to look like I will need partner to have AKxx S and the AC to make 10 tricks, or a way to reach my hand to make to trump finesse before the opps can score the possible H ruff. Not that any of this matters as 4S is where we are going for sure.

I think this 2H bid leaves me room to show some good hand via 3D, although there may be something to be said for this asking for a D stop. My feeling is bidding 3C is not enough, some days it goes all pass with the opps happy we failed to bid our cold S game.

Double of 2H is a consideration but my idea there is you should have more defensive values. I do not see the value of double being pure penalty and do not care to defend should partner elect to pass 2H dbled, possible.

The last choices are some number of S ranging from 2 to 4. I would prefer partner played S from his side, it may be what we need to make it.

[whereagles]

kenrexford, on Dec 31 2006, 10:58 AM, said:

1. I'm not sure that I would dedicate four of these calls to show holdings in a suit RHO presumably has just shown to be five long, when X works for that.

2. Nor do I like the idea of a call that shows a holding in clubs that would have merited an opening initially, without a stop in this presumed suit from RHO.

1. This is a personal choice, but I prefer to keep dbl for take-out and use the other 4 bids to expose psychs.

2. Not everybidy is keen to open 3♣ on AKQxxx due to the risk of missing out on 3NT.

[hrothgar]

One point worth making:

Partner doubled and I'm sitting on a stiff Diamond. If partner doubled on shortage, they're sitting on a 10+ card fit and only bid to the three level.

I can't be sure, but partner might have doubled on flat hand. I'm not overly fond of this style (if you look back to the thread on what to bid over 1♣, I favored passing on a 4-3-3-3 14 count). Playing with one of my normal partner's, a double with length shows either a VERY big single suited hand with some Diamond length or a big NT oriented hand.

I'd be very interested in knowing what the opp's fit jump style is.

oh well. probably just idle speculation.

I'm bidding 3♣

[neilkaz]

3♣ for me, and expecting to get a chance to bid ♠ later.

[mikeh]

hrothgar, on Dec 31 2006, 01:23 PM, said:

One point worth making:

Partner doubled and I'm sitting on a stiff Diamond.  If partner doubled on shortage, they're sitting on a 10+ card fit and only bid to the three level.

Opener hasn't rebid yet, so we cannot draw inferences from the fact that they have only bid to the 3-level. I once heard of someone opening at the 1-level with a 7 card suit, so I am NOT going to assume that partner has 3♦s.

I am joining the herd of 3♣ bidders, risking the underbid in order to better describe my hand on the next round: I cannot imagine opener having a hand on which he will not compete with 3♦ (or more).

[pclayton]

3♣. I hope we all would be tuned into the fact that the bidding isn't dying after this call.

[P_Marlowe]

3C

My partner are allowed to stretch to make
a takeout X, if you have agreed on it, you
could bid 2NT as some kind of good-bad,
intending to pass 3C.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

Free, on Dec 31 2006, 03:17 AM, said:

The auction ain't over after we bid 3♣, because the auction is forcing for opponents until 3♦. That's why I'm in the 3♣-camp.

No, the situation is not forcing for the opps, LHO would normaly pass with a balanced hand and sufficient tollerance for hearts. Especially if you pass a tempo :-)

Anyway, I bid 3♣ because I can bid 3♠ over 3♦.