[inquiry]

Dealer: South Vul: NS Scoring: IMP

♠ ♥ AQT53 ♦ K982 ♣ AK76

West North East South
 -     -     -     1♥
 1♠    Pass  Pass  Dbl
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

A few hundred of us watched this one today live. What would you bid in the balancing seat with this hand?

[Flame]

I would probebly double this even tho i have a void spade, because my points are ok for diffence.
This is one resson i dont like the negative double the way it played today.
btw im sure luis wouldnt double with this void.

[luis]

As you know I don't double with voids, so I'd bid 2c.
It shows an excellent alternate lead to hearts and maybe pd has a club fit.

Why is not 2c in the options, there're some strange options in the poll...

[inquiry]

luis, on Apr 30 2004, 01:14 PM, said:

As you know I don't double with voids, so I'd bid 2c.
It shows an excellent alternate lead to hearts and maybe pd has a club fit.

Why is not 2c in the options, there're some strange options in the poll...

It got lost... 2♣ and 2♦ should have been there too. I added them in..

For what it is worth, I don't double very often with voids for takeout myself. I wonder why Flame not mention me too?

ben

[mikestar]

2 spades.

Your hand is worth 36 Zar points before any adjustments for fit. This is two full tricks better than a mininum opening bid. Partner must have at least 8 Zars even with 0 HCP and is unlikely to be that weak and 4-3-3-3. If he has 4-4-3-2 and 6 HCP with no controls, or 5 HCP with one control, he has 16 Zars for 52 total=game in a major--plus that spade void is worth something when we find the fit.


I don't like double on a void when game is so likely--we won't set then enough.

[Flame]

inquiry, on Apr 30 2004, 01:17 PM, said:

luis, on Apr 30 2004, 01:14 PM, said:

As you know I don't double with voids, so I'd bid 2c.
It shows an excellent alternate lead to hearts and maybe pd has a club fit.

Why is not 2c in the options, there're some strange options in the poll...

It got lost... 2♣ and 2♦ should have been there too. I added them in..

For what it is worth, I don't double very often with voids for takeout myself. I wonder why Flame not mention me too?

ben

I don't like doubling with void either, but luis never does.

[Trpltrbl]

2♣, if pd has(and he does) ♠ he will do something smart.
I have found out that X with void generally not good.

Mike

[Flame]

What was the result of this 1sp D ?

[inquiry]

Flame, on Apr 30 2004, 03:11 PM, said:

What was the result of this 1sp D ?

1♠-X down 2 + 300 NS, +9 imps NS. But, don't let the results influence what you bid on this hand. Just bid what you think is right. Who knows even though double here won 9 imps, that doesn't mean, necessarily, it was the right bid.

Ben

[Flame]

inquiry, on Apr 30 2004, 03:15 PM, said:

Flame, on Apr 30 2004, 03:11 PM, said:

What was the result of this 1sp D ?

1♠-X down 2 + 300 NS, +9 imps NS. But, don't let the results influence what you bid on this hand. Just bid what you think is right. Who knows even though double here won 9 imps, that doesn't mean, necessarily, it was the right bid.

Ben

I already said i would double, because i think the diffencive potential of the hand isnt too bad (even tho it contain a void) i am happy to see the result support this.

[Wiste1]

I would double

What have north (partner) with his pass ?:

Partners pass normally shows 0-5 hcp or penalty
Penalty - then my double works
If more than 6 hcp my partner have NO spade-stopper and NO fit for hearts, and NOT both minor (double with both) - after my double partner bid 2minor and i raise/or bid 2 spade... reaching game: 4 heart or 5 minor (6minor could happens too, but very strange)
With fewer than 6 hcp we could find game too

[the hog]

X automatic!
A sensible pd will not pass the x less than KQJxx of S or a similar holding.

[Flame]

The_Hog, on Apr 30 2004, 07:37 PM, said:

X automatic!
A sensible pd will not pass the x less than KQJxx of S or a similar holding.

"sensible pd" for you need this KQJXX where a sensible pd of luis (Ben i am not forgeting you ) who never double with a void can have less.
One day soon i'll post my alterative to negative D which imo is a bad tool for many situations its been used like the one here.

[mishovnbg]

2♣. One of main reasons why is not good to dbl with void is you can't return nessesary for good defense trump return when you take trick.
Misho

[Fluffy]

The_Hog, on May 1 2004, 12:37 AM, said:

X automatic!
A sensible pd will not pass the x less than KQJxx of S or a similar holding.

As usual I fully agree with you Ron

[flytoox]

I will dbl, if pd plan to pass 1sx then we definitely have no fit in any other suits. The only concern is the vulnalibity. with such good defense strength, i will dbl 100%.

[Antoine Fourrière]

I would double. Maybe double denies a void in direct position, when partner could have bid their suit and didn't, but not here.

[Free]

2♣ for 3 reasons:

- I have a void, doesn't pay off really well for the defense
- 2♣ should show a good hand if partner has some ♠s
- we're V and they're not, and I want to make my game instead of playing them for about -3

[inquiry]

Now for the rest of the story. This was board 5 from a vugraph played on april 30th, and entitled:

Camp.It.Squadre 2004 = 9(o) Incontro Qualif

I will not mention the players by name, but lets just say at both tables were people among the best bridge players in the world.

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     1♥    1♠    Pass
 Pass  Dbl   Pass  Pass
 Pass  


As you can see 1♠ will go down, it was in fact, down two for +300 for NS. Hardly a victory given that 3NT game is certainly laydown with 5♦, 1♥, 2♣ and 1♠ (for minimum +600), and look at 6♦, that can't be broken. At the second table (closed room), there was no overcall and NS quickly reached 6♦. As you can see 12 tricks are assured. Pull trumps, give a ♥ (lose the ♥J). You win without working up a sweat 1♠, 3♥ 5♦ 2♣, and 1 ♠ ruff (with trumps 2-2 you can actually ruff two spades, but you gave up a heart, so still only make 12 tricks). In explicable the declearer (truley a great player), had a blind spot and went down. So the NS pair who doubled 1♠ instead of losing 7 if their opponents bid game, or 15 if their opponent had made the virtually 100% sure slam, won an unjustified 9 imps.

This hand was not a great victory for either side. It is not clear to me who screwed up the bidding NS in 1♠X. South's hand maybe too strong at this vul to simply pass 1♠ overcall (surely partner will reopen however), and maybe too offensively oriented for ♦ with presumed fit at this vul to pass the double. North with a void maybe should follow Luis's rule and not make a takeout double here.

But there you go. Here is the actual hands, so you can see how you think the bidding should have gone.

ben

[mikestar]

Whether South's pass is reasonable depends on his systemic alternatives (what does 2D show in this partnership?), but leaving in the double is an abomination--even placing partner with a singleton, its too likely 1S won't go down enough to pay for the extemely likely 3NT (never mind the slam actually available.)