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Sry if this was suggested million times before.
The fact that the system takes someone out of a table in a middle of a game doesnt seem right, its very rude to leave a table like that so why should BBo system take part of such rudeness ?
I think it would even be better if the system would just take those who dont play and will bad from the turnament those who are curently in the middle of a play, people will then have to make sure they arent playing or will not be playing the turney.
Another less extreme way is to make sure that a player who sign up for a turnament cant begin a new board 10 min before the tournament begin, this shouldnt be too hard to do, and will solve most of the leaving in the middle problems.
automatic leaving the table
#1
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Posted 2004-April-18, 15:04
#2
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Posted 2004-April-18, 15:21
Sounds like you are frustrated, Flame, and don't get me wrong - I empathise with that. I started a thread in a similar mood. However, reading such suggestions (I would call them need for "emotional patches" for the software) and having cooled off a bit, since this is my 4th day of "invisible strike", I think that no software can possibly prevent or make up for some failing/deficiency, you name it that is exclusively human.
Maybe if it were possible to implement some automatic reminder system, like you get a message 10 or so minutes before tourney, the people you play with will have no excuse for disappearing without warning. But even now - there are players who warn you without reminders, and others who will fail to do so anyway.
Let's go get a beer and cool down
Maybe if it were possible to implement some automatic reminder system, like you get a message 10 or so minutes before tourney, the people you play with will have no excuse for disappearing without warning. But even now - there are players who warn you without reminders, and others who will fail to do so anyway.
Let's go get a beer and cool down
What do I know of man's destiny? I could tell you more about radishes. -Samuel Beckett
#3
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Posted 2004-April-18, 15:30
lexica, on Apr 18 2004, 04:21 PM, said:
Sounds like you are frustrated, Flame, and don't get me wrong - I empathise with that. I started a thread in a similar mood. However, reading such suggestions (I would call them need for "emotional patches" for the software) and having cooled off a bit, since this is my 4th day of "invisible strike", I think that no software can possibly prevent or make up for some failing/deficiency, you name it that is exclusively human.
Maybe if it were possible to implement some automatic reminder system, like you get a message 10 or so minutes before tourney, the people you play with will have no excuse for disappearing without warning. But even now - there are players who warn you without reminders, and others who will fail to do so anyway.
Let's go get a beer and cool down
Maybe if it were possible to implement some automatic reminder system, like you get a message 10 or so minutes before tourney, the people you play with will have no excuse for disappearing without warning. But even now - there are players who warn you without reminders, and others who will fail to do so anyway.
Let's go get a beer and cool down
lol im cool no need for a beer.
#4
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Posted 2004-April-18, 17:36
Some reminder is certainly not enough. As far as I can see the priority in favour of tournaments is so hard that us who prefer thinking and fun need to accept this kind of rudeness.
A table option to prevent such people to be able to sit will certainly solve the problem. It is not serious with all those sitting for 5-10-15 minutes because they have nothing else to do.
I have earlier suggested a button to enforce decent behavior - a ban of people who have signed up for a tourney scheduled fx. within 1/2 hour will certainly be a part of that. Mandatory use of convention card and aut. report of people leaving in the middle of a game would all be a part of such enforcement.
In that way we will be on a good way to apply to the rules for BBO.
A table option to prevent such people to be able to sit will certainly solve the problem. It is not serious with all those sitting for 5-10-15 minutes because they have nothing else to do.
I have earlier suggested a button to enforce decent behavior - a ban of people who have signed up for a tourney scheduled fx. within 1/2 hour will certainly be a part of that. Mandatory use of convention card and aut. report of people leaving in the middle of a game would all be a part of such enforcement.
In that way we will be on a good way to apply to the rules for BBO.
#5
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Posted 2004-April-18, 18:58
hi,
a combined filter for intentionel disconnect, so leaving a tourney before its ended and leaving main bridgetables before deal is played all counts as same thing(=intentionel disconnect) when u drop below a certain %of finisching what u started causes a bann for certain time.
i believe uday is thinking of this , at least he mentioned it somewhere.
its actif now for tourney and all tds are very very happy with this improvement.
But i said this before, software isnt causing this rudiness, this is full responsabilty of the players in question.
I play also regulary in main and we always announce we have a tourney coming up. I need no reminder of this.i sit at a table, first thing i click is tourneys so see actual time before start and then inform opps
its courtesy, respect, bridgeminded.good manners and respect for others will result in making friends and thats what bbo is for me( a place wher i can spend time with friend and play a game i love)
We have the possiblity to make friends from all over the world, some miss this oppertunity and make only enemies,its really their lost
marc
a combined filter for intentionel disconnect, so leaving a tourney before its ended and leaving main bridgetables before deal is played all counts as same thing(=intentionel disconnect) when u drop below a certain %of finisching what u started causes a bann for certain time.
i believe uday is thinking of this , at least he mentioned it somewhere.
its actif now for tourney and all tds are very very happy with this improvement.
But i said this before, software isnt causing this rudiness, this is full responsabilty of the players in question.
I play also regulary in main and we always announce we have a tourney coming up. I need no reminder of this.i sit at a table, first thing i click is tourneys so see actual time before start and then inform opps
its courtesy, respect, bridgeminded.good manners and respect for others will result in making friends and thats what bbo is for me( a place wher i can spend time with friend and play a game i love)
We have the possiblity to make friends from all over the world, some miss this oppertunity and make only enemies,its really their lost
marc
"if you fail at your first attempt , maybe skydiving is not for you".
#6
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Posted 2004-April-19, 03:11
Fine Marc that you are a decent man. But this is not only about those who want to violent decency - the suddenly disappearing from a bridge must be stopped. The reason for disappearing is of no relevance.
We must STOP the ability to sit in main club if you have signed up for a tourney starting within 1/2 hour or if you have signed up for availability as substitute. The way rudeness is carried out counts - not wheter intended or not.
We must STOP the ability to sit in main club if you have signed up for a tourney starting within 1/2 hour or if you have signed up for availability as substitute. The way rudeness is carried out counts - not wheter intended or not.
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Posted 2004-April-19, 04:57
I personally think that half an hour is too long to prevent people from playing in the main bridge club. People will not sit in front of their computer for half an hour waiting for something to happen, they'll go make a cup of tea, read the paper etc. When the tournament starts I guarantee that a significant percentage will still be logged into BBO, but away from their computer. Thus the work of TDs will increase as we'll have to sub all of these players.
I think a limit of 5 minutes is more than enough. This gives time to finish the board being played, and to give an apology to the players at the table.
I also think that if we ban any player who has registered as a substitute from playing in the main bridge club, we'll see a dramatic drop in the number of players prepared to register as a sub.
Mark
I think a limit of 5 minutes is more than enough. This gives time to finish the board being played, and to give an apology to the players at the table.
I also think that if we ban any player who has registered as a substitute from playing in the main bridge club, we'll see a dramatic drop in the number of players prepared to register as a sub.
Mark
#8
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Posted 2004-April-19, 05:53
I dont care at all if you cannot get subs. or you will face other problems. The rudeness is leaving a table in the middle of a game or just joining a table with no intension of serious play. I have had partners who just wanted to play with me until their tourney starts or they were sucked in as substitutes. They I have banned all of course.
That must be stopped NOW
Decency must have the priority and nothing else.
That must be stopped NOW
Decency must have the priority and nothing else.
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Posted 2004-April-19, 06:47
This form of rudeness is not our only form of rudeness.
As you know, we're experimenting with tourney bans for the equivalent offence in tourneys. I think we need to find a good way to do the same for the main bridge club.
But, the problem is more complicated. Here is the basic problem. If the server *knew* that someone had bailed from a MBC table, it could take action. How can it tell?
In the meantime, i kinda like an earlier idea
"Never suck someone away from a table into a tourney on tourney startup. " I think this should be modified to
"On tourney startup, ignore players who are sitting at a table containing no empty seats (with an exception made for tables where all players are registered for this tourney)"
The thing i love about this is that it is beautifully simple and places the burden where it belongs - on the tourney player. Not to mention that it is trivial to implement.
Should I go ahead?
As you know, we're experimenting with tourney bans for the equivalent offence in tourneys. I think we need to find a good way to do the same for the main bridge club.
But, the problem is more complicated. Here is the basic problem. If the server *knew* that someone had bailed from a MBC table, it could take action. How can it tell?
In the meantime, i kinda like an earlier idea
"Never suck someone away from a table into a tourney on tourney startup. " I think this should be modified to
"On tourney startup, ignore players who are sitting at a table containing no empty seats (with an exception made for tables where all players are registered for this tourney)"
The thing i love about this is that it is beautifully simple and places the burden where it belongs - on the tourney player. Not to mention that it is trivial to implement.
Should I go ahead?
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Posted 2004-April-19, 06:55
Flame, on Apr 19 2004, 10:04 AM, said:
Sry if this was suggested million times before.
The fact that the system takes someone out of a table in a middle of a game doesnt seem right, its very rude to leave a table like that so why should BBo system take part of such rudeness ?
I think it would even be better if the system would just take those who dont play and will bad from the turnament those who are curently in the middle of a play, people will then have to make sure they arent playing or will not be playing the turney.
Another less extreme way is to make sure that a player who sign up for a turnament cant begin a new board 10 min before the tournament begin, this shouldnt be too hard to do, and will solve most of the leaving in the middle problems.
The fact that the system takes someone out of a table in a middle of a game doesnt seem right, its very rude to leave a table like that so why should BBo system take part of such rudeness ?
I think it would even be better if the system would just take those who dont play and will bad from the turnament those who are curently in the middle of a play, people will then have to make sure they arent playing or will not be playing the turney.
Another less extreme way is to make sure that a player who sign up for a turnament cant begin a new board 10 min before the tournament begin, this shouldnt be too hard to do, and will solve most of the leaving in the middle problems.
I understand your frustration Flame - IF I have registered for a tourney starting (for example in 30 mins) and THEN start to play im main club I ALWAYS inform my P (and OPPS) that I will be leaving to start T at ** time---- and IF I am REALLY clever will say "TY all I will not be able to play another hand..." before I am IN the tourney
BUT 2 things would make life easier (IMO)
1. the ability to choose to "rise from this seat at end of current hand" and STILL be able to thank your partner and opps before disappearing from the table
2. PLEASE make it IMPOSSIBLE for people to register in "request a partner" in Tourneys -- AND THEN accept registration WHILE PLAYING in a tourney which CAN'T finish before second starts
---happened to me last night (my time) ----- I DID leave the main table (with apologies to partner ( with whom I was really enjoying the game) and the opps) in time to be waiting to be swept into the tourney -------------- ONLY to find I got a message something like "sorry your partner is unavailable so you can't play in tourney" THAT REALLY upset my night 
#11
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Posted 2004-April-19, 07:43
I dont think player should be panished for bailing about of an MBC table, if you dont want them to beb bailed then dont do that, but it seems wrong to suck them to a turnament and then punish them for that, yes i agree that a player should leave a table before he is being builed but still...
I think even if you can't reach perfection you should work to improve.
For that resson i would try to do what you know for sure that is right for example, not to allow a player that has sign up for a tournament to start a new board 7-10 min before the tournament begin.
a player who signed up for a tournament shouldnt be allowed to enter a new table atleast 15 min before his tournament begin, it dsoesnt make sense to me to enter a table for only 2 boards, but 30 min like suggested earlier might be lil too much.
After that you use what uday suggested and not take the player to the turnament if he is still playing of take him anyway, but you will have much less of those playing.
Those things shoudlnt be too hard to implement, they wont solve every problem but will solve some, and i think it will also give the tournaments a little more respect, if people will wait for it for few minutes rather then be bailed from a played board.
I think even if you can't reach perfection you should work to improve.
For that resson i would try to do what you know for sure that is right for example, not to allow a player that has sign up for a tournament to start a new board 7-10 min before the tournament begin.
a player who signed up for a tournament shouldnt be allowed to enter a new table atleast 15 min before his tournament begin, it dsoesnt make sense to me to enter a table for only 2 boards, but 30 min like suggested earlier might be lil too much.
After that you use what uday suggested and not take the player to the turnament if he is still playing of take him anyway, but you will have much less of those playing.
Those things shoudlnt be too hard to implement, they wont solve every problem but will solve some, and i think it will also give the tournaments a little more respect, if people will wait for it for few minutes rather then be bailed from a played board.
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Posted 2004-April-19, 07:59
uday, on Apr 19 2004, 02:47 PM, said:
This form of rudeness is not our only form of rudeness.
As you know, we're experimenting with tourney bans for the equivalent offence in tourneys. I think we need to find a good way to do the same for the main bridge club.
But, the problem is more complicated. Here is the basic problem. If the server *knew* that someone had bailed from a MBC table, it could take action. How can it tell?
In the meantime, i kinda like an earlier idea
"Never suck someone away from a table into a tourney on tourney startup. " I think this should be modified to
"On tourney startup, ignore players who are sitting at a table containing no empty seats (with an exception made for tables where all players are registered for this tourney)"
The thing i love about this is that it is beautifully simple and places the burden where it belongs - on the tourney player. Not to mention that it is trivial to implement.
Should I go ahead?
As you know, we're experimenting with tourney bans for the equivalent offence in tourneys. I think we need to find a good way to do the same for the main bridge club.
But, the problem is more complicated. Here is the basic problem. If the server *knew* that someone had bailed from a MBC table, it could take action. How can it tell?
In the meantime, i kinda like an earlier idea
"Never suck someone away from a table into a tourney on tourney startup. " I think this should be modified to
"On tourney startup, ignore players who are sitting at a table containing no empty seats (with an exception made for tables where all players are registered for this tourney)"
The thing i love about this is that it is beautifully simple and places the burden where it belongs - on the tourney player. Not to mention that it is trivial to implement.
Should I go ahead?
Please go ahead Uday. Looks like your solution is good - hope very much also simple to implement. I and many others will be waiting impatiently.
For clarification. I said banned - I mean banned as partner for me. Nothing else I can decide of course.
#13
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Posted 2004-April-19, 08:32
Claus I find your attitude as rude as the behaviour you seek to adjust.
I like to play with the the same group of players. Usually these are players I know from face to face bridge. If I register for a tournament, I like to be able to practise with my partner before the tournament starts. I let my partner and opps (all of whom I usually know) that I am playing in so-and-so tournament. They do not have problems with this. Therefore I see no reason to change from the current situation. A simple reminder should be more than sufficient.
I like to play with the the same group of players. Usually these are players I know from face to face bridge. If I register for a tournament, I like to be able to practise with my partner before the tournament starts. I let my partner and opps (all of whom I usually know) that I am playing in so-and-so tournament. They do not have problems with this. Therefore I see no reason to change from the current situation. A simple reminder should be more than sufficient.
#14
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Posted 2004-April-19, 09:07
Let us be very carefull here!
Why offend partners and TD'S?
Because my tourney partner couldn't leave his/her table x minutes to the tourney start, i can't play ?
Well you could say there might be 3 offended players at the table and only one partner but is this what you realy want?
As a TD i give a limit of players i can handle and my well planned tourney looses x players and their partners because they could not finish at deadline?
They might even be dummies at their tables!!
hotShot
Why offend partners and TD'S?
Because my tourney partner couldn't leave his/her table x minutes to the tourney start, i can't play ?
Well you could say there might be 3 offended players at the table and only one partner but is this what you realy want?
As a TD i give a limit of players i can handle and my well planned tourney looses x players and their partners because they could not finish at deadline?
They might even be dummies at their tables!!
hotShot
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Posted 2004-April-19, 09:08
Occasionally some may forget they have registered. As I understand Uday now - then he will put the pressure to those who it belongs to - the player himself. He will simply miss the tourney and his partner too in this way. Excellent. A good way to impose some kind of selfdiscipline. - Step 2 of that will of course be same procedure for substitutes.
If somebody need a reminder - they can find a lot of applications with all kind of reminders. BBO dont need to deal with that.
If you want to play bridge with me Mark for an hour or 2 you will be very welcome. If you have less time - please don't sit.
Mark I play with people from all over the world. I enjoy this way of get together very much. You prefer to play with your local friends. - We are all free here to choose the way we prefer - and good so!
If somebody need a reminder - they can find a lot of applications with all kind of reminders. BBO dont need to deal with that.
If you want to play bridge with me Mark for an hour or 2 you will be very welcome. If you have less time - please don't sit.
Mark I play with people from all over the world. I enjoy this way of get together very much. You prefer to play with your local friends. - We are all free here to choose the way we prefer - and good so!
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Posted 2004-April-19, 10:04
Just a suggestion. Still open for discussion.
#17
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Posted 2004-April-19, 10:52
Woo Hoo - now that I am no longer a "Novice" poster and have moved up to "Beginner" status, I am inspired to add my 10 cents to this topic.
Before we consider what to do with players who are signed up to play in a tournament, but are otherwise busy at BBO, can we please consider getting rid of sign-ups where one or both players are not signed on to BBO. Two or three minutes before start time would suffice to allow others time to sign if the limit is reached. Currently, at the 3 minute before mark, I go thru and count the incomplete pairs, make a lobby plea to un-register, and then I add the same number of pairs to my limit as I have missing/incomplete pairs. Could we please have a way to discard missing registrants electronically.
On the issue of players in the MBC being swooped to the table - there is a great deal of merit to the fact that they should be individually responsible for watching the time and excusing themselves in time for the tourney to begin. On the other hand, if I've signed up very early for a tournament and I've gotten involved in some interesting competition in the MBC, I may not be watching the clock.
As TD, I always make 2 or 3 lobby announcements when my tourney is about to start. Most don't do this and many think it is annoying. However, if you do implement the option to discard players/pairs who are busy in the MBC - it might be helpful to have an automatic announcement in the lobby chat, or privately to those players, that there are "x" minutes until the tourney begins and that they need to finish what they are doing asap. As for those who are subbing or playing in other tournaments - sheesh ........duh!
Frosty
Before we consider what to do with players who are signed up to play in a tournament, but are otherwise busy at BBO, can we please consider getting rid of sign-ups where one or both players are not signed on to BBO. Two or three minutes before start time would suffice to allow others time to sign if the limit is reached. Currently, at the 3 minute before mark, I go thru and count the incomplete pairs, make a lobby plea to un-register, and then I add the same number of pairs to my limit as I have missing/incomplete pairs. Could we please have a way to discard missing registrants electronically.
On the issue of players in the MBC being swooped to the table - there is a great deal of merit to the fact that they should be individually responsible for watching the time and excusing themselves in time for the tourney to begin. On the other hand, if I've signed up very early for a tournament and I've gotten involved in some interesting competition in the MBC, I may not be watching the clock.
As TD, I always make 2 or 3 lobby announcements when my tourney is about to start. Most don't do this and many think it is annoying. However, if you do implement the option to discard players/pairs who are busy in the MBC - it might be helpful to have an automatic announcement in the lobby chat, or privately to those players, that there are "x" minutes until the tourney begins and that they need to finish what they are doing asap. As for those who are subbing or playing in other tournaments - sheesh ........duh!
Frosty
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Posted 2004-April-19, 11:31
No Frosty - no solution. To suck people away from a table is ruining our fun but we dont want those people who has 15-30-45 minutes left and nothing else to do. I want them to stay away.
If they are not engaged in my game I am not interested to deal with them at all. They are welcome to kibitz but with 30-45 minutes left till their thourney starts - they must stay away from playing at ordinary tables in Main bridge club.
Involve yourself into more discussions - and you will soon advance into something new - I dont know what - please let us know
If they are not engaged in my game I am not interested to deal with them at all. They are welcome to kibitz but with 30-45 minutes left till their thourney starts - they must stay away from playing at ordinary tables in Main bridge club.
Involve yourself into more discussions - and you will soon advance into something new - I dont know what - please let us know
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Posted 2004-April-19, 12:55
I can think of a solution that is much less drastic and might be best.
The problem is that someone didnt tell his opponents about his upcoming tournament, so why dont be fix just this, let the opponents (and partner) know this automaticly. This can be done in many ways for ex' an icon next to the play that informing he is going to play a tournament in X minutes .
This way we leave the decision to the players maybe they dont mind, maybe they all sign up for this tournament.
The problem is that someone didnt tell his opponents about his upcoming tournament, so why dont be fix just this, let the opponents (and partner) know this automaticly. This can be done in many ways for ex' an icon next to the play that informing he is going to play a tournament in X minutes .
This way we leave the decision to the players maybe they dont mind, maybe they all sign up for this tournament.
#20
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Posted 2004-April-19, 13:32
Flame you might be right if we talk about people like me - old people with poor memory. Thats not those we are talking about.
Most people signs up for tourney 2-3 hours ahead of start. Please look into signup lists 24+ hours ahead from now.
BBO cannot be for the nurse for lazy people. If they want to engage in something they have a responsibility themselves. Their own real responsibility is to be right in time. Too much demand for grown up people you think?
Software can handle those with poor moral in those cases where the poor moral also implies violations of the BBO rules for how to behave. The poor moral of those who disturbs me and others by occupying a seat in Main Bridge Club because they have nothing else to do right now or they maybe have 15 minutes lasting of their lunch-break. Such foolishness software can do nothing about but all contributes to bad experiences. People coming in - playing 1-2 hands - and leaving.
If people want to play bridge in Main Club - do so! Welcome to my table.
If people have something else to do - Main Club is not the place to enter!
Most people signs up for tourney 2-3 hours ahead of start. Please look into signup lists 24+ hours ahead from now.
BBO cannot be for the nurse for lazy people. If they want to engage in something they have a responsibility themselves. Their own real responsibility is to be right in time. Too much demand for grown up people you think?
Software can handle those with poor moral in those cases where the poor moral also implies violations of the BBO rules for how to behave. The poor moral of those who disturbs me and others by occupying a seat in Main Bridge Club because they have nothing else to do right now or they maybe have 15 minutes lasting of their lunch-break. Such foolishness software can do nothing about but all contributes to bad experiences. People coming in - playing 1-2 hands - and leaving.
If people want to play bridge in Main Club - do so! Welcome to my table.
If people have something else to do - Main Club is not the place to enter!