BBO Discussion Forums: Double fit - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Double fit

#1 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2012-October-24, 16:50


IMPs. 2 showed spades and diamonds, any strength.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#2 User is offline   TimG 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,972
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine, USA

Posted 2012-October-24, 17:14

4
0

#3 User is offline   lalldonn 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,066
  • Joined: 2012-March-06

Posted 2012-October-24, 17:40

Double seems fine to me.
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
- billw55
1

#4 User is offline   CarlRitner 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 211
  • Joined: 2005-July-14

Posted 2012-October-24, 17:52

not sure quite what double shows but it feels safer than 4S.
Cheers,
Carl
0

#5 User is offline   SteveMoe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,168
  • Joined: 2012-May-17
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cincinnati Unit 124
  • Interests:Family, Travel, Bridge Tournaments and Writing. Youth Bridge

Posted 2012-October-24, 18:20

4
We have a double fit and the green light U/V.
Be the partner you want to play with.
Trust demands integrity, balance and collaboration.
District 11
Unit 124
Steve Moese
0

#6 User is offline   Fluffy 

  • World International Master without a clue
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,404
  • Joined: 2003-November-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:madrid

Posted 2012-October-24, 18:44

just double
0

#7 User is offline   dake50 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,211
  • Joined: 2006-April-22

Posted 2012-October-24, 21:45

3S: splinter raise means they are looking up.
I'll try 4S. Leave them no Q-bid below keys-ask.
Their guess.
0

#8 User is offline   JLOGIC 

  • 2011 Poster of The Year winner
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,002
  • Joined: 2010-July-08
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2012-October-24, 22:28

I'll bid 4S, it will often make it hard for them to make up for the times we go down a lot lol.
0

#9 User is offline   Trinidad 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Joined: 2005-October-09
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2012-October-25, 00:48

Another one for 4

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
0

#10 User is offline   rogerclee 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,214
  • Joined: 2007-December-16
  • Location:Pasadena, CA

Posted 2012-October-25, 02:48

I would just double, it seems like unless partner has some extras that playing a 5-3 spade fit with spades breaking 4-1 is asking for a disaster.
0

#11 User is offline   rhm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,092
  • Joined: 2005-June-27

Posted 2012-October-25, 03:24

4

This is unlikely to be more expensive than their game.
DBL gives opponents additional options in a slam inviting auction, e.g whether opener has the spade ace or RHO a void.
I'd rather Pass than DBL.

Rainer Herrmann
0

#12 User is offline   rogerclee 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,214
  • Joined: 2007-December-16
  • Location:Pasadena, CA

Posted 2012-October-25, 06:49

View Postrhm, on 2012-October-25, 03:24, said:

I'd rather Pass than DBL.

You would rather pass, telling partner not to save while still giving them the whole 4 level, than double, suggesting that partner bids if he finds his hand appropriate? You are a highly logical guy, surely you can work out that this makes no sense.
0

#13 User is offline   Trinidad 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,531
  • Joined: 2005-October-09
  • Location:Netherlands

Posted 2012-October-25, 08:32

In a not so obvious way, Dbl also takes away bidding room for the opponents.

Granted, they get more room now, since they can pass or redouble to show whatever they want it to mean. But if the double is all partner needs to bid 4, he will bid it and the bidding room has been taken away.

Of course, Dbl doesn't take away as much room as a direct 4 bid, but when viewed as a whole -as an "average of the possible continuations"- it gives the opponents less room than pass.

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
0

#14 User is offline   jogs 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,316
  • Joined: 2011-March-01
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:student of the game

Posted 2012-October-25, 11:19

Just like your other thread. What two suiter? This hand is 4333.
Need 3=2=4=4 to be considered a two suiter.

4 only because of favorable vulnerability. Would pass on the other three vulnerabilities.
Seems like the spades are likely to be 5=1=3=4 around the table. Opener gets only one chance
to decide whether to double 4 or bid 5. If you reach 4 by some slow method
opener would have room to exchange more info on the hand.
0

#15 User is offline   PhilKing 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,240
  • Joined: 2012-June-25

Posted 2012-October-25, 11:30

This hand seem to have generated a whole lotta love.

If partner has KJTxx x AKxxx xx you are going for either 800 or 1100 and they are almost certainly settling for game if you pass. And 1400 is not out of the question KJTxx x KJxxx Qx.
0

#16 User is offline   rhm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,092
  • Joined: 2005-June-27

Posted 2012-October-25, 12:02

View PostPhilKing, on 2012-October-25, 11:30, said:

This hand seem to have generated a whole lotta love.

If partner has KJTxx x AKxxx xx you are going for either 800 or 1100 and they are almost certainly settling for game if you pass. And 1400 is not out of the question KJTxx x KJxxx Qx.

Granted that spades will break 4-1 are you seriously suggesting that you as declarer would take just 4 tricks holding

KJTxx x KJxxx Qx opposite Q96 Q86 Q92 T742

I trust your declarer skills are not that bad.
A 5-0 break is almost impossible given the auction with these two hands.
If you go down for 800 you would be unlucky if slam in hearts would not be on.

Rainer Herrmann
0

#17 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2012-October-25, 13:20

If my only goal is to interfere, 4 stands out.

However, in thinking this through a bit more, I kind of like 4.


1. Partner might have 5/6

2. Opener likely has spade length with diamond shortness and would therefore be unlikely to double 4.

3. 4 does take up a lot of space.

4. If partner is on lead with K-J or K-10 in diamonds, my call helps

5. Partner probably will know that I have three spades anyway if I bid 4, because Opener is unlikely to have 5/6



This last point is perhaps the most interesting. If Responder splinters in spades after a Michaels-type call showing spades, the spade fit is fairly well established already. This should have some impact on bidding theory.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#18 User is offline   han 

  • Under bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,797
  • Joined: 2004-July-25
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Posted 2012-November-01, 04:34

Ken, you make good points for the 4D call, but aren't you afraid that your partner will play you for diamond shortness and will try to give you a ruff?
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
0

#19 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2012-November-01, 05:00

View Posthan, on 2012-November-01, 04:34, said:

Ken, you make good points for the 4D call, but aren't you afraid that your partner will play you for diamond shortness and will try to give you a ruff?

I tend to bid where I live. If I live in diamond ruff land, I bid my trumps (4H).
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#20 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2012-November-01, 05:10

View Postkenrexford, on 2012-November-01, 05:00, said:

I tend to bid where I live. If I live in diamond ruff land, I bid my trumps (4H).

What would you do if you were bidding 4 to make and wanted to involve partner in any decision over 5?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

4 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users