[Wackojack]

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My partner held this hand and doubled for take-out. At the time I thought he should have overcalled 1NT but now I am re-considering.

Our opponents were playing Acol 12-14 no trump. This means that the 1♣ opening promises at least 4. If a 4 carder the hand will have 15-19 points unless some 4441's. Otherwise it will be a 5+ carder. So the odds favour 5 or more cards in opps club suit.

Overcalling 1NT without a stop now has big disadvantages. If partner does have a club stop we will be wrong siding the contract so it is likely that a no trump contract will be poor.

Thoughts?

Then again after you double what do you do if partner bids 2♥? 3♥? 2♣?

Thoughts?

[MrAce]

1 NT all day, any day.

[nige1]

'Wackojack" timestamp=, on 2014-November-14, 09:21, said:

My partner held this hand and doubled for take-out. At the time I thought he should have overcalled 1NT but now I am re-considering. Our opponents were playing Acol 12-14 no trump. This means that the 1♣ opening promises at least 4. If a 4 carder the hand will have 15-19 points unless some 4441's. Otherwise it will be a 5+ carder. So the odds favour 5 or more cards in opps club suit. Overcalling 1NT without a stop now has big disadvantages. If partner does have a club stop we will be wrong siding the contract so it is likely that a no trump contract will be poor. Thoughts? Then again after you double what do you do if partner bids 2♥? 3♥? 2♣? Thoughts?

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IMO Double = 10, Pass = 9, 1N = 8. For the reasons explained by Wackojack (of which LHO will also be aware). It would be different if RHO played some weird canapé system like 2/1 where 1♣ is often bid on a 3-card or even 2-card suit. Double can create problems on the next round but double never promises 4+ cards in each of the other suits.

MrAce, on 2014-November-14, 10:11, said:

1 NT all day, any day.

If RHO had opened 1♠ (playing 2/1) would Mr Ace still overcall 1N with the black suits reversed?

[aguahombre]

I original thought "1NT, any day, all day." Then, I read the conditions in the OP. Close, IMO between Double and Pass with my 16 working count; but "working" for what? Might choose to let this one go. Then I won't have to answer the OP's follow-up questions after I Doubled.

[whereagles]

nige1, on 2014-November-14, 10:46, said:

If RHO had opened 1♠ (playing 2/1) would Mr Ace still overcall 1N with the black suits reversed?

Dunno about him, but I might.

[eagles123]

I also think 1N is pretty clear. pass looks so weedy and X looks all wrong

[MrAce]

@Aguaman: You are correct, I did not read carefully the conditions given by OP.

@Nige1: No I would not overcall 1 NT over 1♠ with black suits reversed.

[iandayre]

I would double. As for the follow ups, at IMPS I would bid 3C over 2H or 2C. I would pass 3H. At matchpoints I would probably pass 2H, otherwise the same actions.

[1eyedjack]

Still 1N for me

[Jinksy]

It seems like a partnership Q to me. I would double with most Ps, because most of my Ps would assume I have a stop for 1N, and raise straight to three with such as xxx xx AKJTxxx x, or just a smattering of points few of which are in the C suit.

If I'm playing with someone who I know will allow for me bidding 1N on hands like this, then I'll bid it.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

X, I dont like 1NT, but it is ok.


With kind regards
Marlowe

[The_Badger]

A 1NT overcall should always carry a stopper in the ops bid suit. You have 16HCPs, 2 tens, 3 cards in both majors, so dbl. is the only sensible bid. Trying to work out hand distributions and from what side a hand should be played when only 1 player has bid is not logical. As for passing with this hand...enough said.

The hand does not have shortness in the ops. suit but it does have extra values to compensate.

[Wackojack]

My thoughts if I had this hand:

Overcall 1NT?
With Acol 12-14, RHO is very likely to have an unbalanced hand with 5 or more clubs. However, since I have ♣Jxx, even ♣Qx with partner will be a stop. If partner has a 5 card major he will transfer and we will find our fit. If partner has game values and a 4 card major he will, bid 2♣ and finding no 4 card major will bid 3NT. Say we do have a club stop. Then we need 8 top tricks to cash. This looks like a reasonable chance.

Double:
If partner has a 4 card major and no good stop in clubs as is likely, then we will be playing in a 4-3 major suit fit. IIf partner has a 5 card major all will be well in regard to the strain, but we need a good understanding of what strength is needed to bid 2♣, 2♥ or 3♥.

My conclusion: When partner has a 5 card major it will be much easier to gauge the contract level if partner overcall 1NT. When partner has a 4 card major there is still a good chance of no trumps playing better.

To those that do choose double: 2♣, 2♥, 3♥ what will these bids be showing and what action do you take?

[ggwhiz]

Tough hand in that anything could work or not.

The exception imo is 1nt. I've never played twice with a partner who loses the first 5 tricks (clubs here) after I bounced to 3nt.

Double then 2M by partner probably has game values but no idea if it's a doomed 4-3. Anything higher and game should be ok.

Pass could be good if partner balances with a major showing 5 but if they balance with a double you are in the same boat. If lho responds you can most often double next time and either bump them up or land in a safe level partscore. Maybe a better strategy at mp's than imps?

I would flip a coin on those 2 options.

[eagles123]

Say our club holding was qxx we could still lose first 5 tricks or whatever. Non expert view but think 1n is beyond clear

[ggwhiz]

eagles123, on 2014-November-15, 11:08, said:

1n is beyond clear

To each his own but "beyond clear" is an overbid when 1♣ almost always shows 5. I'll lean your way if it's 2 or 3 plus though.

[1eyedjack]

The way I viewed it, if 3N our way is the right spot, then overcalling 1N is likely to get you there where all other actions are much less likely to do so.

Furthermore, if we have game on our way, then 3N is heavy favourite to be the best of them.

If partner has no game interest then I am not too bothered about them cashing a few clubs against 1N, on which I can pitch losers until they let me in.

So the question for me is, am I going unilaterally to give up on 3N with my first call over 1C? Yes, I agree with the risks, and you could certainly have a better hand for 1N, but for me it remains the best of a bad bunch of options.

[fourdad]

I play that the X promise 4 hearts so I pass and wait.

[Wackojack]

eagles123, on 2014-November-15, 11:08, said:

Say our club holding was qxx we could still lose first 5 tricks or whatever. Non expert view but think 1n is beyond clear

Err..... does not "beyond clear" in modern jargon mean "more than clear"? This accords with your previous post saying "pretty clear" Then you talk about losing the first 5 tricks.

Perhaps I misunderstand and you meant to say that replace our Jxx with Qxx then if partner has nothing we can still lose the first 5 tricks. As said earlier Qx opposite Jxx is frozen.

[AreyHakaal]

A smooth PASS.There are almost 8 losers and does that Jack of clubs really count? The distribution is not good enough to make a take out double.However if partner does play the '"escape bids " when LHO makes a penalty double then I will certainly overcall 1NT.