[RunemPard]

Partner opens 1H and you hold...

♠AKQx
♥QTxxx
♦Jxx
♣x

1♥-2N*
3♦*-3♠*
3N*-4♣*
4♦*-?

2N=Jacoby
3♦=extras, no shortness
3♠=control
3N=undiscussed
4♣=control
4♦=control

Agree up to here? Now what?

[mike777]

edit ok pard promises extras so 4s now if that is rkc in hearts


Responder has an adjusted 5 loser hand with the ten card h fit.



not sure how little pard might have for extras but this should be cold:

a minimum extra hand might be:

xx..AKxxx...AK....Qxxx

[WesleyC]

The problem with your auction is that you never showed a singleton club which is the critical feature of your hand.

The way your auction played out, you have no clue whether opener has [xx AKJxx KQx Axx] (slam is laydown), or [xx AKJxx Axx KQx] (slam is hopeless).

If you simply describe your hand on the first round with a 4C splinter, you can trust partner to make the right decision.

[mike777]

I thought about making the splinter but I think responder's hand is too good assuming we play splinters promise a certain range.

fwiw I think both example hands are far too good to rebid 3nt rather than a 4c cuebid over 3s. After the 4c cue responder has an easy 4h rebid and opener has a decision to make to continue or not.

It helps a lot if 3nt implies no club control.

[Cthulhu D]

What would 1H-2NT-3NT mean? Stiff diamond w/extras? Stiff in oM?

Additionally, what is partner's view on opening a strong 1NT with a 5 card major. If I was playing with a clone of me, I'm gonna guess there is a balanced 17-19 count over there. Playing a 15-17 NT if partner always opens 1NT with a 5 card major (and it's hearts we are raising so he is more likely to have), partner has 17+ to 19- (or he might have opened 2NT)

I agree with WesleyC it would have been nice to splinter, but as I cannot do that, I'm going to wheel out blackwood and punt.

Edit: Did a really primitive sim (south holds this hand, north has a 17-19 NT with a 5332 shape and the A or K of diamonds):

Slam makes: 83%
Grand makes: 70 times of 273
Small Slam makes: 155 times of 273

Given the 83% shot, you have to take it. Blackwood increases those odds by about 2%.

[PhantomSac]

We have a tough guess here, if partner doesn't have much wasted in clubs then slam will be cold. If there had been a way to get him to evaluate that it woulda been cool.

[WesleyC]

mike777, on 2014-November-27, 00:16, said:

I thought about making the splinter but I think responder's hand is too good assuming we play splinters promise a certain range.

Fair enough - the 5th trumps certainly makes this hand a maximum splinter for me. However, even after 1M - 2NT you still need a way for both players to show shortage (in case responder has a hand too strong to splinter). Knowing about shape is sooooo much more important than knowing about controls in this kind of auction.

The simplest option is adding a one line agreement:

After 1M - 2NT, if opener rebids 3C (minimum) or 3D (bal extras), then the first new suit bid by EITHER player is shortage.

So for example:

1M 2NT
3D 4C* would show this hand

while

1M 2NT
3D 3H would be no shortage.

and after

1NT 2NT
3C* 3M

opener would show shortage (or bid 3NT without).

You can obviously improve considerably on this method, but it gets the job done and is a massive improvement over just control bidding.

[kenrexford]

3NT as not discussed is a red flag. Everything is guessing in that context.

[mcphee]

Jacoby is better suited to use with balanced hands. It appears splinter bids are not used with this pairs methods which is my choice. I bid 4H and let partner guess.

[RunemPard]

mcphee, on 2014-November-27, 06:50, said:

Jacoby is better suited to use with balanced hands. It appears splinter bids are not used with this pairs methods which is my choice. I bid 4H and let partner guess.

We had splinters available..I just decided that the hand seemed either too good or almost too good to use one...
Wasn't sure if I could get more information by splintering or starting with Jacoby.

Should have said in my post, but we are playing 2/1 w/ reverse bergen, splinters, and jacoby.

1M-2N
3C=all mins
3D=extras, no shortage
3H=extras, single club
and so on up to voids

[lowerline]

RunemPard, on 2014-November-26, 17:05, said:

Partner opens 1H and you hold...

♠AKQx
♥QTxxx
♦Jxx
♣x

1♥-2N*
3♦*-3♠*
3N*-4♣*
4♦*-?

2N=Jacoby
3♦=extras, no shortness
3♠=control
3N=undiscussed
4♣=control
4♦=control

Agree up to here? Now what?

No. I would have Splintered instead of Jacoby 2nt. You must play a very low or tight range for your Splinters if this hand does not qualify...

S.

[Cthulhu D]

Isn't this really that unbalanced hands are better off showing so P if balanced can assess if his honours are fitting or wasted,can if unbalanced see if there is a double fit.

[whereagles]

By FTL lore slam rates to be percentage here.

I'll keycard and bid 6. If all keys are there I might try for 7.