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TAKE OUT or PENALTY?? 2/1 ACBL

#1 User is offline   dickiegera 

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Posted 2016-May-14, 18:25




Is double here Take out or Penalty ?
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#2 User is offline   masse24 

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Posted 2016-May-14, 18:36

I play it Penalty.
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#3 User is offline   SteveMoe 

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Posted 2016-May-14, 21:48

Optional Takeout.
2NT limits your hand. Raising hearts suggest opponents own a probable 9-card fit.
Double shows a doubleton heart with maximum NT values.
Partner can choose to convert for penalty with modest values (enough for balance of power) and no safe place to play at the 3-level.
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#4 User is offline   PhilG007 

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Posted 2016-May-14, 23:06

As partner has not yet bid,the double is obviously for takeout
and a bid must be found. West can only pass with great strength
in hearts. As the opponents have 'connected' in the suit,that looks
highly unlikely. I'm surprised that East didn't make a takeout double
on the first round.
"It is not enough to be a good player, you must also play well"
- Dr Tarrasch(1862-1934)German Chess Grandmaster

Bridge is a game where you have two opponents...and often three(!)


"Any palooka can take tricks with Aces and Kings; the true expert shows his prowess
by how he handles the two's and three's" - Mollo's Hideous Hog
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#5 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2016-May-15, 04:14

Take-out.
For me, after 3♥, west still keeps silent, so east would better pass instead of double.
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#6 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2016-May-15, 05:48

Depends on the 2NT. If this is natural, X is penalty. If it is a puppet (Lebensohl style) then takeout.
Edit - but I can't imagine a puppet making a takeout double, so I assume 2NT was natural and this is penalty. If 2NT was minors, then equally 3NT would be minors, so another pointer to penalty.
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#7 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2016-May-16, 04:38

T/O

And the given East hand is way too strong for a 2NT overcall.

With kind regards
Marlowe
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Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#8 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2016-May-16, 05:26

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2016-May-16, 04:38, said:

T/O

And the given East hand is way too strong for a 2NT overcall.

With kind regards
Marlowe


Agree in all respects, we play the 2N overcall as 15-17 or so.

What I'm not clear about are the top/bottom end of the 3N overcall and which hands you have to double first on
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#9 User is offline   Tramticket 

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Posted 2016-May-16, 07:52

View PostCyberyeti, on 2016-May-16, 05:26, said:

Agree in all respects, we play the 2N overcall as 15-17 or so.

What I'm not clear about are the top/bottom end of the 3N overcall and which hands you have to double first on


3NT is more usually based on a long running suit.

Double with any hand too strong for the 2NT overcall.
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#10 User is offline   ggwhiz 

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Posted 2016-May-16, 08:18

In situations like this we play over the heart suit = penalty, under = takeout.

ie. 2♥ - p - p - 2nt then passed to rho who bids 3♥, double would be takeout

This one is penalty
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
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#11 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2016-May-16, 14:31

This looks to me like a make up double. You know -- "I've underbid my hand the first time and now I'll try to make up for it on the second round."

If bidding 2 NT the first round was right, then I think you've got to "stay fixed" and pass the second round. The problem with bidding on is that you don't know if partner has anything. Contracting at the 3 or 4 level may be quite dangerous without a known fit or source of tricks. One big problem with a really big hand is that partner may not be able to enter their hand to lead toward dummy.

I think in the actual auction, the double is take out. If you had a 2 NT hand with enough to defeat 3 ♥, then you'd sit and take your positive.
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